Toronto van killer was an fedora-wearing misogynist

False wrote:fedora-wearing misogynist = Involuntary Celibate - does what it says on the tin. Cant get their hole, even though they want it. See also: The Supreme Gentleman, Fedoracore, M'Lady, Nice Guy.

Chad = Chad Thundercock - your stereotypical jock male. Alpha male, Stacy wants him, not you. Confident, life is easy, everything handing to him on a plate. Has become gradually corrupted by fedora-wearing misogynists to mean 'attractive male that isnt me'. See also: Post-transformation Zyzz, every single american jock teenager love interest in a teen film, 99% of men who nail a bird.

Stacy = Stacy Thundercunt - your standard pretty woman. Cheerleader, pretty, friends, potential mean-girl tier. Rejects the advances of fedora-wearing misogynists in favour of getting screwed over by Chad. Rejects Nice Guys and Supreme Gentlemen blind to how good their life would be, because they are too thirsty for abs and fat cocks. See also: Literally every woman who hasnt strawberry floated you.

HTH

Don't forget about Robots. Like an fedora-wearing misogynist they have poor social skills but Robots seem to be less angry about their situations.

I was reading an article about the attack and read something pretty surprising:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/what-is-a ... -1.4633893

The origins of the word "fedora-wearing misogynist" can reportedly be traced back to a Canadian woman known in the media by only her first name, Alana.

Alana told Elle magazine in 2016 that she came up with the term while trying to find a label for her own sexual identity and create an inclusive online space for people who didn't fit the conventional pattern of adult sexual experiences and relationships.

"I was trying to create a movement that was open to anybody and everybody," she told the magazine.

Talk about misappropriation.

I was going to come to the defence of pick-up culture, but then I noticed the tweet from that Roosh fellow and... Yeah, doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture

For the most part though if you check out pick-up communities it's harmless (and productive) advice - 98% of the time targerted at men who feel they need help in the socialising and dating scene. The subreddit for pick-up it's mostly the same advice over and over: hit the gym, groom yourself properly, be playful, don't act like a dick, approach. Other posts are guys sharing their experiences of meeting women, successful or not. It's not an echo chamber of misogyny or pro-rape culture (that would be r/ince1s, that was actually shut down for being an echo chamber of misogyny and pro-rape culture), it's just geeky guys figuring out how to actually be attractive instead of an undesireable lump who does nothing with his life

And with all that said, I can't help but wonder if a tragedy like this could have been avoided if the guy hadn't fallen in with the wrong crowd. For those that never saw it, I can confirm that r/ince1s really was a hideosuly toxic place. Not only were the posts shared horrifyingly misogynistic (each time I visited out of curiosity you could bet that there'd be a rant about how rape is justifiable because sex is a base human desire) but any attempt to toss the members a lifeline and actually help them out with productive advice was often banned and removed. I remember seeing a post that read something like:

"Former 25 year old ince1, here's what I did to change myself. In a happy relationship now, you can do it too!"

The guy was chewed up and spat out for it. Mods would rush in to reassure the sub's followers that if you're over the age of 20, you're doomed to be virgin forever/Stacy only goes for Chad/we are in this together brothers and you wouldn't betray us now woud you?

I confess I haven't actually read up on this story much, but if this killer was in with a crowd like r/ince1s, it's not difficult to imagine him ending up, for want of a better phrase, radicalised in this way. Grim stuff

(Also take that, word filter)

Pick Up culture is a complicated beast.

Some in there give genuinely solid advice, as you say. Clean, get fit, groom, dress well, get some anecdotes, get out, believe in yourself. Good tenets. The problem is with the culture as a whole inviting in and heralding very toxic ideas and figures.

Its not difficult to find men in there who have nothing to offer outside of a rehearsed three line routine which they believe obligates a woman to sleep with him. Its not difficult to find an army of men who dehumanise or depersonalise women and their motives, simply assigning them as sluts or silly holes that need filling. Its not difficult to find men who engage in dishonest or immoral practices, some verging or explicitly rapey.

Sure, some people in there are alright enough, just telling you to be well and be your best self. There are a lot of people who are arseholes and should rightly be shunned and corrected, though.

I think the ethos as a whole attracts people who may straddle the fedora-wearing misogynist, nerd, socially awkward, supreme gentleman, robot regions who may be already somewhat embittered and particularly vulnerable to an anti-woman, anti-chad, anti-social rhetoric.

brer in future when i pm you for dating advice id really prefer if you replied in pm rather than in public thankyou

I think a lot of the fedora-wearing misogynist crowd want super hot model like girlfriends. Not the girls who they could meet online dating.

this is a really good article with the first section on the 'nice guy' fallacy: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-harsh-truths-that-will-make-you-better-person/

lex-man wrote:I think a lot of the fedora-wearing misogynist crowd want super hot model like girlfriends. Not the girls who they could meet online dating.

I think this might be a key issue. I mean, there are an equal number of attractive/unattractive men and women on various scales, no offence to anyone. Being an unattractive guy should not be a barrier to sexual relationships unless your standards are way too high.

I think there are a lot of young guys who spend there time on the internet, seeing porn and imagining that they should be hooking up with stunning women or something rather than actually meeting ordinary girls and having a realistic impression. They probably walk by women everyday who would be interested in them if they ever gave them a second look... well, you know, women who would be interested in them in terms of their appearance. I'd imagine the number of women interested in misogynist arseholes is close to 0.

excuse me even though i never leave my bedroom i am a 9.5 or even a 10 on a good day and i deserve a 10 just like my anime waifus

Ultimately the problem isn't really that they're ugly or awkward or have too high expectations (though all those things are true). It's that their complexes make it impossible for them to connect to another person in anything like a normal way.

They focus on their virginity but it's a scapegoat. Dating isn't what they need to get out of that weird fedora-wearing misogynist hole. They need basic social skills, some perspective, a hobby, friends, a job, treatment for underlying mental conditions. Dating will come naturally once they sort all that out.

<]:^D wrote:anime waifus

This used to be a regular topic of discussion among a significant number of onm'ers.

It's also got a lot to do with entitlement. These men believe society owes them a relationship, as that's what a lot of western pop culture is based on: masculine men impressing feminine women. These are dudes who don't, as Karl says, have the social skills necessary to even speak to women let alone attract one but rather than considering the problem.lies with them self, they immediately blame women for not fitting in with the demure, romantic archetype present in the culture they've absorbed since birth.

Brerlappin wrote:In an era where online dating and gooseberry fool like tinder exist, i have to imagine most of these "fedora-wearing misogynist"s are actually "cel" because they're just strawberry floating losers who need to up their game. I was online dating back in like 2004 and i met a bunch of women off it, a few girlfriends and a few hook ups, and that was back when online dating was still a total stigma, AND i was a skinny dork ass mummy strawberry floater long before i ever hit the gym or did martial arts. Online dating is easier than ever now. You just go online and swipe right or whatever you do on tinder. Like maybe spend less time online talking with other likeminded losers about how much you hate women because they wont let you strawberry float them and maybe work on self improvement and you might find someone out there willing to let you horse one into them. Here's a pro tip for these strawberry floating beta fedora-wearing misogynist losers: women wont bang you just because you're a "nice guy". Dating is marketing. You are a product. You need to make that product attractive to a potential mate and show you have something to offer other than "B-B-BUT IM A NICE GUY!!!". Being a nice guy is like the bare minimum required for entry. Being a nice guy is right there alongside "is alive" in terms of attractiveness, like trying to sell a brand new laptop with the slogan "it turns on".

The kicker being fedora-wearing misogynists are the complete opposite of nice.

My severe physical disability and all the complications that go along with it have greatly reduced all chances of me having a meaningful relationship with a woman but as a fairly rational person I don't have any feeling of resentment towards women because of this.

These fedora-wearing misogynist guys are all complete and utter deluded lunatics.

Bleachyleachy wrote:I was going to come to the defence of pick-up culture, but then I noticed the tweet from that Roosh fellow and... Yeah, doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture

For the most part though if you check out pick-up communities it's harmless (and productive) advice - 98% of the time targerted at men who feel they need help in the socialising and dating scene. The subreddit for pick-up it's mostly the same advice over and over: hit the gym, groom yourself properly, be playful, don't act like a dick, approach. Other posts are guys sharing their experiences of meeting women, successful or not. It's not an echo chamber of misogyny or pro-rape culture (that would be r/ince1s, that was actually shut down for being an echo chamber of misogyny and pro-rape culture), it's just geeky guys figuring out how to actually be attractive instead of an undesireable lump who does nothing with his life

And with all that said, I can't help but wonder if a tragedy like this could have been avoided if the guy hadn't fallen in with the wrong crowd. For those that never saw it, I can confirm that r/ince1s really was a hideosuly toxic place. Not only were the posts shared horrifyingly misogynistic (each time I visited out of curiosity you could bet that there'd be a rant about how rape is justifiable because sex is a base human desire) but any attempt to toss the members a lifeline and actually help them out with productive advice was often banned and removed. I remember seeing a post that read something like:

"Former 25 year old ince1, here's what I did to change myself. In a happy relationship now, you can do it too!"

The guy was chewed up and spat out for it. Mods would rush in to reassure the sub's followers that if you're over the age of 20, you're doomed to be virgin forever/Stacy only goes for Chad/we are in this together brothers and you wouldn't betray us now woud you?

I confess I haven't actually read up on this story much, but if this killer was in with a crowd like r/ince1s, it's not difficult to imagine him ending up, for want of a better phrase, radicalised in this way. Grim stuff

(Also take that, word filter)

I think there is a difference between pick-up artists and generally dating advice. I remember reading a bit of the game and thinking these people are bunch of idiots. The author has written a follow up called the Truth where he calls out all those pick up artist people as deranged weirdos.

lex-man wrote:

Bleachyleachy wrote:-Stuff-

I think there is a difference between pick-up artists and generally dating advice. I remember reading a bit of the game and thinking these people are bunch of idiots. The author has written a follow up called the Truth where he calls out all those pick up artist people as deranged weirdos.

I neglected to mention The Game (by Neill Strauss) but having read it a while ago I actually wholly recommend it to everyone - it's an excellent book and Strauss is a very good author. It's not a how-to book, but one man's story of becoming arguably the most successful PUA of all time (certainly one of the richest)

What makes it so good is something you touched upon, which is Strauss's brutal honesty after spending (about 2 years if I remember) in the world of pick-up. Even the opening chapter of the book drops you in medias res into a disaster situation where Strauss's best friend is having a mental breakdown in their trashed mansion. You start the book thinking it'll be about some hot shot manipulators who live the Dan Bilzerian lifestyle all day long, yet the opening chapter immediately shatters that preconception

Strauss did indeed write a follow up book which I haven't read, but even by the time you're 75% of the way through The Game he's openly disillusioned by it all - even by the way he is telling his clients not to become social robots ("Does meeting women to you involve the same 5 line routine and magic tricks you've used 1000 times? You might be becoming a robot") or that after a while one cares less about the body count and more about actual meaningful relationships. There's also the irony he touches upon of "We joined the world of pick-up to attract women. We ended up attracting men", referring to how aspiring PUA's flocked en masse to their seminars and workshops

It's a balance to strike. No doubt there is misogyny in pick-up (as Stauss frequently points out) but for the most part I think my previous statement remains true - it's largely late blooming shy young men, terrified by the thought of even saying 'Hello' to that girl at the bar, trying quite earnestly to improve their social skills. Even if it's somewhat artificial, the way I see it, it's a million times more preferable than the possible alternative of them turning into homicidal fedora-wearing misogynists*

*Which is obviously the most extreme possible situtation and not especially common, but as we have now seen, is possible

Bleachyleachy wrote:I was going to come to the defence of pick-up culture, but then I noticed the tweet from that Roosh fellow and... Yeah, doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture

For the most part though if you check out pick-up communities it's harmless (and productive) advice - 98% of the time targerted at men who feel they need help in the socialising and dating scene. The subreddit for pick-up it's mostly the same advice over and over: hit the gym, groom yourself properly, be playful, don't act like a dick, approach. Other posts are guys sharing their experiences of meeting women, successful or not. It's not an echo chamber of misogyny or pro-rape culture (that would be r/ince1s, that was actually shut down for being an echo chamber of misogyny and pro-rape culture), it's just geeky guys figuring out how to actually be attractive instead of an undesireable lump who does nothing with his life

That doesn't sound so bad in and of itself, but it's not hard to find posts like this there:

I first learned game in japan. There is no difference. Game is the same all around the world. They are just as big as whores as the women in the rest of the world. You don’t need specific Japan tailored game.

You need to be very direct and aggressive since you can’t speak and use body language and suggestive looks to lay them. You want to pull them just grab their arm and lead them to the sex location. You need pure caveman game.

The problem with PUA culture is that it presents women as a warm hole attached to some kind of logic puzzle, rather than as, well, actual people. I am sure some (maybe even many!) people just lift a few tidbits of dating advice out of the community and go on their way, but the core culture there is definitely misogynistic.

You need pure caveman game. [/i]

Japanese women are in to Chuck Rock?

the sex location

Karl wrote:

Bleachyleachy wrote:I was going to come to the defence of pick-up culture, but then I noticed the tweet from that Roosh fellow and... Yeah, doesn't exactly paint a pretty picture

For the most part though if you check out pick-up communities it's harmless (and productive) advice - 98% of the time targerted at men who feel they need help in the socialising and dating scene. The subreddit for pick-up it's mostly the same advice over and over: hit the gym, groom yourself properly, be playful, don't act like a dick, approach. Other posts are guys sharing their experiences of meeting women, successful or not. It's not an echo chamber of misogyny or pro-rape culture (that would be r/ince1s, that was actually shut down for being an echo chamber of misogyny and pro-rape culture), it's just geeky guys figuring out how to actually be attractive instead of an undesireable lump who does nothing with his life

That doesn't sound so bad in and of itself, but it's not hard to find posts like this there:

I first learned game in japan. There is no difference. Game is the same all around the world. They are just as big as whores as the women in the rest of the world. You don’t need specific Japan tailored game.

You need to be very direct and aggressive since you can’t speak and use body language and suggestive looks to lay them. You want to pull them just grab their arm and lead them to the sex location. You need pure caveman game.

The problem with PUA culture is that it presents women as a warm hole attached to some kind of logic puzzle, rather than as, well, actual people. I am sure some (maybe even many!) people just lift a few tidbits of dating advice out of the community and go on their way, but the core culture there is definitely misogynistic.

This is the key point here. When a movement reduces 50% of the population to a problem needing to be solved, that is a movement that is indefensible.