Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.

I don't know much about Total Biscuit as a person; I have seen only a couple of his vids but I think it's awful that cancer ended his life at such a young age.

Comments in the vein of that Bioware guy seem to be pretty distasteful. Was Total Biscuit really that bad a person... enough to merit someone posting that kind of thing? It feels unusual for such unpleasant things to be posted when someone connected to gaming has passed away.

jawafour wrote:I don't know much about Total Biscuit as a person; I have seen only a couple of his vids but I think it's awful that cancer ended his life at such a young age.

Comments in the vein of that Bioware guy seem to be pretty distasteful. Was Total Biscuit really that bad a person... enough to merit someone posting that kind of thing? It feels unusual for such unpleasant things to be posted when someone connected to gaming has passed away.

That depends on so many things: if you were on the end of one of his multiple rants and subsequently harassed by his army of followers, if you were a woman in the games industry that he targeted, if you were someone he arbitrarily chose to ridicule... Etc etc.

I personally think the Bioware guy's tweets are too much too soon, but they certainly aren't without reason.

jawafour wrote:Comments in the vein of that Bioware guy seem to be pretty distasteful. Was Total Biscuit really that bad a person... enough to merit someone posting that kind of thing? It feels unusual for such unpleasant things to be posted when someone connected to gaming has passed away.

Bioware guy just seems pissed off that TotalBiscuit critisiced his game. Really unprofessional for him to go on that attack after the guy is dead.

Winckle wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

1cmanny1 wrote:I think he mainly just was being himself, despite the fame.
Which is fine IMO - he was a YT personality. With a personality.

Not some morality figurehead.

And if that personality led to people getting hurt? Led to the promotion of harassment and doxxing? Led to hordes of people attacking anyone and anything that didn't line up with their hero's opinions? That's all fine too?

To state that celebrities do not have more responsibility than the average person is ignorant.

Venom wrote:That tweet by that person complaining that TotslBiscuit died before he had a chance to apologise is so bitter and bordering on the unhinged.

I've seen a lot of this rhetoric from his fans as a quick and lazy way to discredit these opinions without coherent discussion. I genuinely don't know if you had the chance to read the whole thread attached to that tweet but it was measured and intelligent, discussing as it did the responsibilities and limitations of internet celebrities and the cults of personality that shoot up around them.

Bain had a lot of shitty views, and he expressed them in a way that led directly to people getting hurt. For many, that will be his legacy. None of the tweets on the last page were gloating or joyful, they were simply stating how terribly sad it was that TB used his position in a way that hurt others then never got the chance to reckon with this fact.

These are though, from a Bioware dev:

Wow.

Bit of a disregard for the value of human life right there, if you ask me.

The guy was a penis don’t get me wrong.

The Bioware devs Tweets are, quite frankly, disgusting. Irrespective of anyone's personal opinion of TB the man has just died and his wife and family are no doubt crushed with grief so to post something so toxic as celebrating the man's death hours after the news broke is inexcusable.

And let's not bullshit here, it's obviously more about TB shiting on a few of this devs games than anything else.

This David Crooks fella has achieved nothing but reveal himself to be a despicable, vile little man, no better than the very person he's attacking.

Spent the last few days dwelling on the many things said about TB in wake of his death, along with my own complicated feelings on him over the years and the question of what is appropriate to say after one's death...not been a great headspace I must say :/

I was very disappointed with him at times and ended up unfollowing + unsubscribing after one too many comments out of line, but deep down I was still pulling for him...despite a sometime pompous attitude, he often came across as affable in videos and certainly not above self deprecation or apology for past actions, even if the latter wasn't always the case thanks to pride. Was certainly rooting for the guy when the cancer ordeal started, his attitude to it was commendable and he did wonders to spread awareness on the importance of getting diagnosed asap.

More than anything, I just dearly wish he'd handled the responsibility of having a large fanatical audience with more grace, directly or indirectly people received serious harassment as a result...as miserly a thought as it is, I can't blame those victims feeling a sense of relief now. I also do understand the critique of having a problematic figure's history completely evangelised, heck given many of TB's comments on the topic of discourse I think he would've agreed.

Even so...I feel such unease reading some of the particularly cutting comments on him, that Bioware dev's especially. I certainly won't blame anyone for having disliked the guy but christ...a death's a death you know? Especially of someone leaving behind a family at 33, especially given that with more time perhaps he could've honed the better parts of his personality while diminishing the lesser aspects. I've seen sombre comments relating to him not having the lifespan to do just that, which I haven't especially taken issue with...though they've certainly not helped the increasingly low mood provided by the subject, oy :/

Ultimately, RIP TB. Sad to see you pass way too soon fella, and I dearly wish the best on the family+friends left behind

Tafdolphin wrote:

1cmanny1 wrote:I think he mainly just was being himself, despite the fame.
Which is fine IMO - he was a YT personality. With a personality.

Not some morality figurehead.

And if that personality led to people getting hurt? Led to the promotion of harassment and doxxing? Led to hordes of people attacking anyone and anything that didn't line up with their hero's opinions? That's all fine too?

To state that celebrities do not have more responsibility than the average person is ignorant.

Venom wrote:That tweet by that person complaining that TotslBiscuit died before he had a chance to apologise is so bitter and bordering on the unhinged.

I've seen a lot of this rhetoric from his fans as a quick and lazy way to discredit these opinions without coherent discussion. I genuinely don't know if you had the chance to read the whole thread attached to that tweet but it was measured and intelligent, discussing as it did the responsibilities and limitations of internet celebrities and the cults of personality that shoot up around them.

Bain had a lot of shitty views, and he expressed them in a way that led directly to people getting hurt. For many, that will be his legacy. None of the tweets on the last page were gloating or joyful, they were simply stating how terribly sad it was that TB used his position in a way that hurt others then never got the chance to reckon with this fact.

Tafdolphin it is incorrect to overly simplify this issue into people who hate injustice vs TotalBiscuit fans. Or For-GamerGate vs Against-GamerGate. Not everybody cares about that. I never wanted to be a part of group argument over twitter. If some people want to be a part of that, fine - but that's not for me.

I wasn't a 'fan' of John Bain. Nor have I watched a video of his for years. I saw bits and pieces. My angle in this was not game politics & abuse. It was simply seeing a man who was fighting cancer, then died from it and thinking about his family. In the real world I knew somebody in my area who was a bad person. He was a bully and he hurt people. When he died of alcoholism I didn't go around to his family to criticise him. Yes, if i'd done that they would have beat the strawberry float out of me, but I didn't go around because I wouldn't have wanted to make his mum more sad.

Criticising someone who's died to their family irl is not the same as what's going on in here. Just because someone has passed away does not mean only their good points can be discussed. Yeah, maybe don't slate him to his gf/wife, but people should be allowed to talk and yes, politely criticise his behaviour.

Saint of Killers wrote:Criticising someone who's died to their family irl is not the same as what's going on in here. Just because someone has passed away does not mean only their good points can be discussed. Yeah, maybe don't slate him to his gf/wife, but people should be allowed to talk and yes, politely criticise his behaviour.

True, but there is a difference between criticising Totalbiscuit and celebrating the man's death. The Bioware dev clearly is relishing in TB's passing, (it's plain for all to see in his Tweets), and so is a complete tosser.

Gemini73 wrote:

Saint of Killers wrote:Criticising someone who's died to their family irl is not the same as what's going on in here. Just because someone has passed away does not mean only their good points can be discussed. Yeah, maybe don't slate him to his gf/wife, but people should be allowed to talk and yes, politely criticise his behaviour.

True, but there is a difference between criticising Totalbiscuit and celebrating the man's death. The Bioware dev clearly is relishing in TB's passing, (it's plain for all to see in his Tweets), and so is a complete tosser.

Absolutely. I'm not suggesting all the criticism (if it can even be called that) has been polite or anywhere near acceptable.

Venom wrote:

Tafdolphin wrote:

1cmanny1 wrote:I think he mainly just was being himself, despite the fame.
Which is fine IMO - he was a YT personality. With a personality.

Not some morality figurehead.

And if that personality led to people getting hurt? Led to the promotion of harassment and doxxing? Led to hordes of people attacking anyone and anything that didn't line up with their hero's opinions? That's all fine too?

To state that celebrities do not have more responsibility than the average person is ignorant.

Venom wrote:That tweet by that person complaining that TotslBiscuit died before he had a chance to apologise is so bitter and bordering on the unhinged.

I've seen a lot of this rhetoric from his fans as a quick and lazy way to discredit these opinions without coherent discussion. I genuinely don't know if you had the chance to read the whole thread attached to that tweet but it was measured and intelligent, discussing as it did the responsibilities and limitations of internet celebrities and the cults of personality that shoot up around them.

Bain had a lot of shitty views, and he expressed them in a way that led directly to people getting hurt. For many, that will be his legacy. None of the tweets on the last page were gloating or joyful, they were simply stating how terribly sad it was that TB used his position in a way that hurt others then never got the chance to reckon with this fact.

Tafdolphin it is incorrect to overly simplify this issue into people who hate injustice vs TotalBiscuit fans. Or For-GamerGate vs Against-GamerGate. Not everybody cares about that. I never wanted to be a part of group argument over twitter. If some people want to be a part of that, fine - but that's not for me.

I wasn't a 'fan' of John Bain. Nor have I watched a video of his for years. I saw bits and pieces. My angle in this was not game politics & abuse. It was simply seeing a man who was fighting cancer, then died from it and thinking about his family. In the real world I knew somebody in my area who was a bad person. He was a bully and he hurt people. When he died of alcoholism I didn't go around to his family to criticise him. Yes, if i'd done that they would have beat the strawberry float out of me, but I didn't go around because I wouldn't have wanted to make his mum more sad.

I wasn't trying to draw lines, so sorry if it looked like I was. It was just that your rather... forceful condemnation of the tweets is exactly what Bain's army has been saying recently. If anything, it's that kind of offhand dismissal that's turning the issue black and white.

Much like the tweets on the last page I feel for his family, but also like those tweets I am sad he never reckoned with his harmful and abusive behaviour. I do not think it's out of line to state this.

And as mentioned, the BioWare went too far. That gooseberry fool is immature and immediately dissuades reasoned debate on the guy's legacy.

EDIT: This. This is the guy's legacy

twitter.com/NickCapozzoli/status/1000049050132140033

No worries.

Anyone would think Totalbiscuit was another Jimmy Savile the way some are carrying on.

I think you are allowed to speak ill of the dead as long as it's not vitriolic. If there's life lessons to be learned by his defenders then he shouldn't get a pass because of cancer. Not defending the thank God he's dead posts but the only person I saw on my Twitter feed mention him was Danny o Dwyer and even his tweet had a "we didn't always see eye to eye" comment.

I was subscribed to the guy pre gamer gate but he seemed kinda pompous and hearing about him siccing his fans on his detractors sounds horrendous. If you have a following you are responsible to tell that following to shut the strawberry float up and not speak for you.

You know this is reminding me of Colin Moriarty he does the whole "@ replying people he doesn't like to stick his large following on them" bit too and I don't like him anymore either but that's a different story.

Urgh, Moriarty is trash.

Have I missed something, when did TB set his fans on people?

captain red dog wrote:Have I missed something, when did TB set his fans on people?

Dude. Read the thread.

When I die, I take no responsibility for the actions of my idiot fans.

Tafdolphin wrote:Urgh, Moriarty is trash.

Checked his feed out of curiosity.





"imaginary issues"

Tafdolphin wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Have I missed something, when did TB set his fans on people?

Dude. Read the thread.

I have, I haven't seen anything where TB set his fans on people criticising him. Hence why I said "have I missed something"?