Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.

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Hexx
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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Hexx » Tue May 29, 2018 6:36 pm

Karl wrote:
Moggy wrote:Forget if you like that YouTube guy or not, what’s the difference between him singing “buy my merch!” and Smyths having a kid singing about all the toys kids can buy at their stores?

I think there are a few points to be made here.

1. All advertising aimed at children is on some level gross. I think advertisements aimed at children are more evil than those aimed directly at parents.
2. There's a difference in context between advertising presented as an advertisement and advertising masquerading as content. Although as intelligent adults we can recognise that music video as an advertisement, it lacks the semantic cues & separation of one. It's presented as a genuine "music video" and even has an iTunes page where fans can buy the single. I think this kind of marketing is more evil.
3. At the risk of sounding out-of-touch I think there's a genuine difference between what a toy store is trying to achieve, and what YouTube Dickhead Jake Paul is trying to achieve. Jake Paul is selling a personal relationship with his fans. His content is entirely about him as a "personality". At the time he was selling "textjakepaul.com", a way to privately communicate with him via text message. As a parent you are probably OK with toy stores, but I think you may feel there is something inherently creepy and exploitative about the nature of his relationship with his viewers. Advertisements predicated on an emotional relationship that the viewer has with the advertiser are more evil.
4. On some level I think we expect megacorporations to act cynically, and the context of them being a megacorporation makes us less impacted by that cynicism. Jake Paul is a children's entertainer and personality, and we have an expectation - no matter how frequently we are disappointed... - that individuals in that position should be good role models. But Jake Paul isn't a good role model. Jake Paul is a vacuous, manipulative, cynical dickhead, completely bereft of any talent whatsoever. I think that makes his relationship with his child fans and therefore any business that stems from that relationship more evil.
5. As Hexx mentioned, it's much easier to be manipulated into buying things on the Internet, particularly when you're young. At least when a kid goes to a toy shop they have to get in a car with their parents then take their parents around the shop then ask their parents "can we get that?", which introduces oversight and fail-safes into the process. Of course, this point applies to many Internet advertisements, but I think advertisements closely linked to the payment method are more evil.
6. I watched the whole video for you and looked at his shop, and I think a few of my brain cells committed suicide in protest, so I hope you're grateful for that. I think the most problematic components are the following: i. the superliminal repetition of the phrase "buy that merch", which I think has been carefully chosen as a psychological strategy; ii. the "$100 for free shipping" line, in a music video, which is just hilariously gross; iii. the presence of a very small boy, which lets us know exactly who Jake Paul knows his audience is; iv. the "ask your mum" line, which makes explicit the axiom of all children's advertising (that kids will beg their parents) with an actual instruction, which I think makes things worse; v. the fact that much of his merch pushes the "Jake Paul movements" of "J Paulers" with the tagline "You can't beat us... Join us!", which again makes explicit another reality of children's marketing, that kids will have to buy certain things to fit into certain groups, again with actual instructions to that effect. I don't think any of those items are individually unique to any marketing campaign, but I think they all work to make an instance of advertising more evil.
7. YouTube video content is not regulated in the same way that TV advertisements or even YouTube advertisements are. This means there's nowhere we can complain about tasteless adverts. Deliberately conducting your marketing in this way makes the affair - yep! - more evil than it would have been otherwise.

I am sure there are lots of other adverts (and YouTube personalities, and corporations...) out there which are also very evil. I don't think Jake Paul is some unique Hitler figure of online marketing. But I don't think his content is common-or-garden marketing compared to adverts which don't do the above.

Of course, it took 7 lengthy list entries to even begin to (fingers crossed) convince you that the video is inappropriate, and you're an intelligent guy who is used to thinking about the world critically. The "it's just a dickhead on YouTube, why waste time overthinking it?" factor is really strong. But it's worth taking a second to peer through that veil because I think it reveals a lot about how information and ideas have been propagating on the Internet in the 2010s. It doesn't stop with the Paul brothers, who are narcissists that train children to send them money. There are machine learning algorithms automatically creating disturbing YouTube Kids content aimed at literal babies to skim ad money from the platform. There are racists who use YouTube to radicalise young people. There are Russians who signal boost alt-right content via social media platforms in an active attempt to subvert our democracy. And to keep things on-topic there's the content of people like TotalBiscuit and Boogie, which uses platforms built on successful hobbyist interest content to go on to subtly support political views most of us would disagree with.

It's probably not the most important thing happening in the world right now, but it's interesting and significant, and it'll be studied by future historians, so at least we can be kind of ahead of the curve by taking notice of it now. ;)


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Moggy wrote: I’ll defer to your (and Hexx/Taf’s) superior knowledge of how insidious they are.


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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Vermilion » Tue May 29, 2018 6:59 pm

Moggy wrote:GET YOUR PARENTS TO TAKE YOU NOW!”



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Johnny Ryall
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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Johnny Ryall » Tue May 29, 2018 10:05 pm

On the subject of the Paul's and merch I thought this clip nailed it, and I don't particularly even like Ethan (who is wearing his own merch ironically).


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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by That » Tue May 29, 2018 11:23 pm

Ethan kind of reminds me of the talent contest episode of Black Mirror, where the guy rallying against the system eventually becomes part of the system's elite. He does occasionally put out very good videos though and that's definitely one of them.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Rightey » Wed May 30, 2018 6:27 am

Karl wrote:You should read about it as soon as your lad has access to any kind of Internet device, preferably sooner. All parents need to read this article about how machine learning algorithms are being used to monetise the abuse of children on the YouTube Kids app.


Pretty interesting article, thanks for that. I have sometimes put songs on for my kid, but I'm always there but it does make me worried about when he grows older.

Maybe I'll just become Amish...

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Tafdolphin » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:26 am

So, this has been doing the rounds this morning:

twitter.com/CartridgeGames/status/1009879478783369216



And no, that's not a typo: he's blaming Anita Sarkeesian (not Antifa as I initially read it).

Longer clip here.

twitter.com/ShartiTheClown/status/1009908040181665793



Love the fact he claims to be slightly left of centre before blaming progressive leftists for the death of a woman killed by a Neo Nazi.

Each time I see or hear the guy talking about this sort of stuff he comes across as supremely uninformed. Just straight up ignorant to a lot of salient points. But still, I suppose he's able to make this sort of stretch effortlessly thanks to his knowledge gaps. If he were actually following along he might accidentally realise what bullshit this all is.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Saint of Killers » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:34 am

Further justification of why I was right to mute both those dickheads on Twitter.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by That » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:43 am

You don't understand Taf, you would need the rationality and logic only a centrist could have to see why neo-Nazi murders are the left's fault.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Knoyleo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:39 am

I genuinely thought Boogie was already dead, too.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by That » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:40 am

Knoyleo wrote:I genuinely thought Boogie was already dead, too.

He didn't die, his incomprehensibly advanced mind ascended to the hyperplane, where he became a being of pure logic and reason.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Knoyleo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:45 am

Long live the immortal centrists.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Dual » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:55 am

Fat banana split

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Moggy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:59 am

Karl wrote:You don't understand Taf, you would need the rationality and logic only a centrist could have to see why neo-Nazi murders are the left's fault.


There were very fine people on both sides.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by That » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:11 am

Moggy wrote:
Karl wrote:You don't understand Taf, you would need the rationality and logic only a centrist could have to see why neo-Nazi murders are the left's fault.

There were very fine people on both sides.

Ha!

Clearly-quite-right-wing people saying "Hey, I'm a very moderate centrist! If anything I want to be left (it's just embarrassing because lefties are much dumber than me)!" has been a thing for as long as I've been following politics, but appears to be increasing in incidence. It's gotten bad enough that the meaning of the word "centrist" is being eroded, at least in spheres like Twitter.

If you want to seek a dialogue & middle-ground with neo-Nazis, but videos about feminism are too far, then you don't actually have moderate political views.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Knoyleo » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:18 am

"I actually lean slightly to the left" - Every right wing chud who thinks they're some kind of revolutionary because they've identified one public service they think they might actually personally benefit from.

pjbetman wrote:That's the stupidest thing ive ever read on here i think.
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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Saint of Killers » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:19 am

Dual wrote:Fat banana split


My response when I heard his I love equality but let's allow 10-20 years for it to slowly become acceptable instead of demanding it right now comment.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Moggy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:22 am

Karl wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Karl wrote:You don't understand Taf, you would need the rationality and logic only a centrist could have to see why neo-Nazi murders are the left's fault.

There were very fine people on both sides.

Ha!

Clearly-quite-right-wing people saying "Hey, I'm a very moderate centrist! If anything I want to be left (it's just embarrassing because lefties are much dumber than me)!" has been a thing for as long as I've been following politics, but appears to be increasing in incidence. It's gotten bad enough that the meaning of the word "centrist" is being eroded, at least in spheres like Twitter.

If you want to seek a dialogue & middle-ground with neo-Nazis, but videos about feminism are too far, then you don't actually have moderate political views.


People are massively split now and there doesn’t appear to be any room for anything in the middle. You either have to be a fan of Trump/Farage or you have to be a Sanders/Corbyn supporter. No middle ground allowed!

And you are right, a lot of the people claiming to be in the middle are actually far right/left. It’s hard to tell sometimes if they are deliberately lying about their political affiliations or if they are just oblivious.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Photek » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:22 am

This whole 'centrist' bullsh*t is code for the Right as far as I can tell. They sh*t on the left almost exclusivley.

Boogie you absolute bollox face! :fp:

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Garth » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:23 am

Disturbing that Boogie and what he says is the moderate left or center ground in US politics considers protesting against actual neo-Nazis parading around your city to be just extreme left wing behaviour and the wrong thing to do. US is strawberry floated up.

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PostRe: Total Biscuit's legacy: GamerGate, etc.
by Moggy » Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:29 am

Knoyleo wrote:"I actually lean slightly to the left" - Every right wing chud who thinks they're some kind of revolutionary because they've identified one public service they think they might actually personally benefit from.


:lol:

"I want to deport black people, but I do support the NHS so I am a lefty".


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