UK General Election 2015

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Who are you voting for?

Conservative
34
22%
Labour
52
33%
Lib Dem
12
8%
UKIP
7
4%
Green
23
15%
SNP
18
11%
Plaid Cymru
1
1%
DUP
1
1%
Sinn Fein
3
2%
Independent
1
1%
Other (please state)
6
4%
 
Total votes: 158
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Cal
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Cal » Tue May 12, 2015 10:48 am

Dan. wrote:I reserve the right to call you out on your arrogant, bigoted shitposting.


Is that how this is going to work, Dan? You're going to call my opinions here 'shitposting'? Can I expect a warning from a Mod following a 'report' from you? When you don't like the fact I take a different opinion to your own is that just me 'shitposting'?

You can call UKIP every name under the sun, Dan. Racist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobic, etc. But when you've run out of ways to express your hatred for them, they will be still be there, taking votes from all the political parties (Farage might have lost the Parliamentary seat at Thanet, but simultaneously UKIP won the local council election in Thanet and have now taken control). That suggests to me that their appeal goes a little deeper than your prejudices would allow. 4 million votes must mean something, don't you think? Or do you think it was 'The Sun Wot Won It?' - you know, that daft claim that it was all the fault of the right-wing press? I think that's just another way of saying the working class are too thick to think for themselves, therefore they did what the tabloids told them to do. And we're right back at Ms Thornberry's sneer.
Last edited by Cal on Tue May 12, 2015 10:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Eighthours
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Tue May 12, 2015 10:49 am

Mini E wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Cal wrote:
Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
Cal wrote:This is why Labour are facing five years in the political wilderness, whilst simultaneously imploding. Until you can get over your infantile accusations of 'waaycism!' and even begin to consider there might actually be problem with open-door immigration I'm afraid I reserve the right to take your valuable insights with more than a little pinch of salt.


Can you give us any evidence, anything at all, that shows immigration is bad?


Almost 4 million votes for UKIP.


You are a moron.

Just because someone voted for it doesn't make it true, it just means there are 3,999,999 other people who like you who wrongly think that immigration is bad.


No no, Cal is quite right. The Nazi's received over 17 million votes (43%) in the 1933 federal elections and we all know that their policies were completely on point. Votes = correct policies. It's simple math.


I WIN GODWIN BINGO!
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Somebody Else's Problem
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Somebody Else's Problem » Tue May 12, 2015 10:49 am

Cal wrote:
Dan. wrote:I reserve the right to call you out on your arrogant, bigoted shitposting.


Is that how this is going to work, Dan? You're going to call my opinions here 'shitposting'? Can I expect a warning from a Mod following a 'report' from you? When you don't like the fact I take a different opinion to your own is that just me 'shitposting'?

You can call UKIP every name under the sun, Dan. Racist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobic, etc. But when you've run out of ways to express your hatred for them, they will be still be there, taking votes from all the political parties (Farage might have lost the Parliamentary seat at Thanet, but simultaneously UKIP won the local council election in Thanet and have now taken control). That suggests to me that their appeal goes a little deeper than your prejudices would allow. 4 million votes must mean something, don't you think? Or do you think it was 'The Sun Wot Won It?' - you know, that daft claim that it was all the fault of the right-wing press? I think that's just another way of saying the working class are too thick to think for themselves, therefore they did what the tabloids told them to do. And we're right back at Ms Thornberry's sneer.


OK, let's try a different tack here. What evidence did those 4 million voters have that immigration is bad?
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Poser » Tue May 12, 2015 10:51 am

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:OK, let's try a different tack here. What evidence did those 4 million voters have that immigration is bad?


UKIP told them it was.


QED.



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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Fries. Wedges. Crisps? » Tue May 12, 2015 10:55 am

Cal wrote:
Dan. wrote:I reserve the right to call you out on your arrogant, bigoted shitposting.


Is that how this is going to work, Dan? You're going to call my opinions here 'shitposting'? Can I expect a warning from a Mod following a 'report' from you? When you don't like the fact I take a different opinion to your own is that just me 'shitposting'?

You can call UKIP every name under the sun, Dan. Racist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobic, etc. But when you've run out of ways to express your hatred for them, they will be still be there, taking votes from all the political parties (Farage might have lost the Parliamentary seat at Thanet, but simultaneously UKIP won the local council election in Thanet and have now taken control). That suggests to me that their appeal goes a little deeper than your prejudices would allow. 4 million votes must mean something, don't you think? Or do you think it was 'The Sun Wot Won It?' - you know, that daft claim that it was all the fault of the right-wing press? I think that's just another way of saying the working class are too thick to think for themselves, therefore they did what the tabloids told them to do. And we're right back at Ms Thornberry's sneer.


Christ alive, Cal, you're in full-blown denial. You honestly don't agree that there is a significant chunk of the populace that is vulnerable to media bollocks? Every side harps on about immigration because it's the issue of the day. It sells papers. Labour has faced criticism from Labour supporters for its immigration mug and shameless attempts to include immigration-related policies as a way of trying to win back those voters that are attracted to UKIP's stance. It does not make them correct. Every study, every statistic, provides compelling evidence that the UK is clearly better off as a member of the EU and that immigration does far more good than harm for our nation.

I've tried very hard not to attack you directly, but when you disregard all the facts and insist your argument still holds merit - an argument that seeks to promote a political party whose membership actively and openly engages in awful behaviours - it is difficult. Report me if you like; your continued presence on these boards suggests I have nothing to fear from breaching the clearly stated guidelines :lol:

UKIP are racist. Christ on a bike, their name is the United Kingdom Independence Party. What the flying strawberry float are we seeking to be independent from? We're an independent nation. By 'independence' they mean 'no more foreigners'. Have you listened to that odious little Farage in an interview?
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 am

Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
Cal wrote:
Dan. wrote:I reserve the right to call you out on your arrogant, bigoted shitposting.


Is that how this is going to work, Dan? You're going to call my opinions here 'shitposting'? Can I expect a warning from a Mod following a 'report' from you? When you don't like the fact I take a different opinion to your own is that just me 'shitposting'?

You can call UKIP every name under the sun, Dan. Racist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobic, etc. But when you've run out of ways to express your hatred for them, they will be still be there, taking votes from all the political parties (Farage might have lost the Parliamentary seat at Thanet, but simultaneously UKIP won the local council election in Thanet and have now taken control). That suggests to me that their appeal goes a little deeper than your prejudices would allow. 4 million votes must mean something, don't you think? Or do you think it was 'The Sun Wot Won It?' - you know, that daft claim that it was all the fault of the right-wing press? I think that's just another way of saying the working class are too thick to think for themselves, therefore they did what the tabloids told them to do. And we're right back at Ms Thornberry's sneer.


OK, let's try a different tack here. What evidence did those 4 million voters have that immigration is bad?


Economically speaking, mass immigration has been shown to be the opposite of bad - the evidence is that there is a net benefit to the economy. However, in terms of housing stock and community cohesion/integration, it has caused problems that are hard to deny. The charge of 'racism' as soon as a simple discussion is proposed on immigration has been incredibly unhelpful, and while the parties other than UKIP have made strides in this area, it's clear that more needs to be done to allay people's fears without insulting them.

The trouble with UKIP's public image, though, is that the stereotype of their typical voter is a shaven-headed thug with a white van and an England flag in his window. There are quite a few of them, unfortunately! How does a stereotype become a stereotype, etc. But they must have some nice voters too, right?
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Moggy » Tue May 12, 2015 10:56 am

Cal wrote:
Somebody Else's Problem wrote:
Cal wrote:This is why Labour are facing five years in the political wilderness, whilst simultaneously imploding. Until you can get over your infantile accusations of 'waaycism!' and even begin to consider there might actually be problem with open-door immigration I'm afraid I reserve the right to take your valuable insights with more than a little pinch of salt.


Can you give us any evidence, anything at all, that shows immigration is bad?


Almost 4 million votes for UKIP.


A lot of the UKIP support (including your own!) made clear that they were voting UKIP in order to secure an in-out EU referendum.

Unless you can break down that 4 million figure into those that voted for UKIP just because of immigration, the figure is meaningless.

Even if all 4 million voted UKIP just because immigration is bad, that leaves 41.6 million people that didn't vote for them (45.6 million eligible voters in the UK).
Last edited by Moggy on Tue May 12, 2015 10:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by lex-man » Tue May 12, 2015 10:58 am

It could be argued that it is destroying traditional English culture. Bloody immigrants :shifty:
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Gandalf » Tue May 12, 2015 10:58 am

Eighthours wrote:The trouble with UKIP's public image, though, is that the stereotype of their typical voter is a shaven-headed thug with a white van and an England flag in his window. There are quite a few of them, unfortunately! How does a stereotype become a stereotype, etc. But they must have some nice voters too, right?


I thought that's the stereotype of anybody being English?
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Tue May 12, 2015 10:59 am

Dan. wrote:
Cal wrote:
Dan. wrote:I reserve the right to call you out on your arrogant, bigoted shitposting.


Is that how this is going to work, Dan? You're going to call my opinions here 'shitposting'? Can I expect a warning from a Mod following a 'report' from you? When you don't like the fact I take a different opinion to your own is that just me 'shitposting'?

You can call UKIP every name under the sun, Dan. Racist, xenophobic, bigoted, homophobic, etc. But when you've run out of ways to express your hatred for them, they will be still be there, taking votes from all the political parties (Farage might have lost the Parliamentary seat at Thanet, but simultaneously UKIP won the local council election in Thanet and have now taken control). That suggests to me that their appeal goes a little deeper than your prejudices would allow. 4 million votes must mean something, don't you think? Or do you think it was 'The Sun Wot Won It?' - you know, that daft claim that it was all the fault of the right-wing press? I think that's just another way of saying the working class are too thick to think for themselves, therefore they did what the tabloids told them to do. And we're right back at Ms Thornberry's sneer.


Christ alive, Cal, you're in full-blown denial. You honestly don't agree that there is a significant chunk of the populace that is vulnerable to media bollocks? Every side harps on about immigration because it's the issue of the day. It sells papers. Labour has faced criticism from Labour supporters for its immigration mug and shameless attempts to include immigration-related policies as a way of trying to win back those voters that are attracted to UKIP's stance. It does not make them correct. Every study, every statistic, provides compelling evidence that the UK is clearly better off as a member of the EU and that immigration does far more good than harm for our nation.

I've tried very hard not to attack you directly, but when you disregard all the facts and insist your argument still holds merit - an argument that seeks to promote a political party whose membership actively and openly engages in awful behaviours - it is difficult. Report me if you like; your continued presence on these boards suggests I have nothing to fear from breaching the clearly stated guidelines :lol:

UKIP are racist. Christ on a bike, their name is the United Kingdom Independence Party. What the flying strawberry float are we seeking to be independent from? We're an independent nation. By 'independence' they mean 'no more foreigners'. Have you listened to that odious little Farage in an interview?


This is what Farage has to say on the racism issue: http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/com ... 82747.html

I think it's too easy to label the party as racist. There's more going on there than that.
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Moggy » Tue May 12, 2015 11:01 am

Gandalf wrote:
Eighthours wrote:The trouble with UKIP's public image, though, is that the stereotype of their typical voter is a shaven-headed thug with a white van and an England flag in his window. There are quite a few of them, unfortunately! How does a stereotype become a stereotype, etc. But they must have some nice voters too, right?


I thought that's the stereotype of anybody being English?


Don't be silly. Some of us are football hooligans as well.
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Gandalf » Tue May 12, 2015 11:03 am

Moggy wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Eighthours wrote:The trouble with UKIP's public image, though, is that the stereotype of their typical voter is a shaven-headed thug with a white van and an England flag in his window. There are quite a few of them, unfortunately! How does a stereotype become a stereotype, etc. But they must have some nice voters too, right?


I thought that's the stereotype of anybody being English?


Don't be silly. Some of us are football hooligans as well.


Are those the one's smartly dressed in Burberry?!
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Fries. Wedges. Crisps? » Tue May 12, 2015 11:04 am

Eighthours wrote:Economically speaking, mass immigration has been shown to be the opposite of bad - the evidence is that there is a net benefit to the economy. However, in terms of housing stock and community cohesion/integration, it has caused problems that are hard to deny. The charge of 'racism' as soon as a simple discussion is proposed on immigration has been incredibly unhelpful, and while the parties other than UKIP have made strides in this area, it's clear that more needs to be done to allay people's fears without insulting them.


Being in the EU means that we have to commit to the principle of free movement of people. It doesn't mean we have to provide instant benefits and housing to those people, though! We can change our system and stop incentivising massive low-skilled migration without having to reconsider our EU membership. This government has had five years to do this; what's stopping them? What stopped Labour? Why won't they make the requisite changes?
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Moggy » Tue May 12, 2015 11:07 am

Gandalf wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Gandalf wrote:
Eighthours wrote:The trouble with UKIP's public image, though, is that the stereotype of their typical voter is a shaven-headed thug with a white van and an England flag in his window. There are quite a few of them, unfortunately! How does a stereotype become a stereotype, etc. But they must have some nice voters too, right?


I thought that's the stereotype of anybody being English?


Don't be silly. Some of us are football hooligans as well.


Are those the one's smartly dressed in counterfeit Burberry?!


FTFY.
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Cal
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Cal » Tue May 12, 2015 11:36 am

Dan. wrote:
Eighthours wrote:Economically speaking, mass immigration has been shown to be the opposite of bad - the evidence is that there is a net benefit to the economy. However, in terms of housing stock and community cohesion/integration, it has caused problems that are hard to deny. The charge of 'racism' as soon as a simple discussion is proposed on immigration has been incredibly unhelpful, and while the parties other than UKIP have made strides in this area, it's clear that more needs to be done to allay people's fears without insulting them.


Being in the EU means that we have to commit to the principle of free movement of people.


It actually means we're signed-up to the principal of the free movement of labour. It's an important difference. Of course, the way that the directive has been interpreted by incompetent Government means that most people do, indeed, think our membership of the EU actually means a free movement of people (a 'borderless Europe' - as per the EU political agenda). That was not the original intention.

Dan. wrote:It doesn't mean we have to provide instant benefits and housing to those people, though! We can change our system and stop incentivising massive low-skilled migration without having to reconsider our EU membership. This government has had five years to do this; what's stopping them? What stopped Labour? Why won't they make the requisite changes?


The Conservatives have already attempted making changes to the way the benefits system works in regard to EU immigration, but when it's obvious that those changes are not making a dent in the net influx (because the 'free movement of people' now supplants the original intent (labour) and the net figures just keep rising), something has to be done or we face an ever-increasing net influx of immigrants from the EU. UKIP want to impose a points-based immigration system; one based on skills.

With regards to the various academic studies and reports that are quoted back at me. I've already conceded that the vast majority of them do indeed suggest that immigration is a net contributor to our economy. I can't argue that point because the reports speak for themselves. As I have said, many times, I favoured UKIP for their anti-EU stance and their anti-CAGW stance. I also favoured their points-based immigration proposal (modelled on the existing Australian system). I didn't vote for them on May 7th because, right now, it's more important to get the EU referendum from the Tories.

I have no idea what the reasons were for the nearly four million who did vote for UKIP: you'd have to ask them. I'm sure there are many different reasons. It would be simplistic and erroneous to think that every vote for UKIP was somehow racist. UKIP appeal for different reasons to different people, including, it now seems, a lot of disenfranchised ex-Labour voters.
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Eighthours » Tue May 12, 2015 11:37 am

Dan. wrote:
Eighthours wrote:Economically speaking, mass immigration has been shown to be the opposite of bad - the evidence is that there is a net benefit to the economy. However, in terms of housing stock and community cohesion/integration, it has caused problems that are hard to deny. The charge of 'racism' as soon as a simple discussion is proposed on immigration has been incredibly unhelpful, and while the parties other than UKIP have made strides in this area, it's clear that more needs to be done to allay people's fears without insulting them.


Being in the EU means that we have to commit to the principle of free movement of people. It doesn't mean we have to provide instant benefits and housing to those people, though! We can change our system and stop incentivising massive low-skilled migration without having to reconsider our EU membership. This government has had five years to do this; what's stopping them? What stopped Labour? Why won't they make the requisite changes?


The number of migrants who come here and go on benefits is small, so that's more of a headlines-grabbing fix than something that will have a real practical effect. Housing is a complicated one, though. Certainly any council housing should be prioritised for UK nationals, but I don't know how the system works at the moment when it comes to immigrants' places in the queue. Is anyone aware of this?
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Moggy » Tue May 12, 2015 11:41 am

Cal wrote:their anti-CAGW stance.


Oooo tell us more!
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Cal » Tue May 12, 2015 11:55 am

Moggy wrote:
Cal wrote:their anti-CAGW stance.


Oooo tell us more!


ENERGY

Britain is sleepwalking into an energy crisis. Families suffer as energy prices rise. Millions are living in fuel poverty. One pensioner dies from the cold every seven minutes in winter, according to Age UK. Meanwhile, the old parties continue to push ‘green’ energy policies that only make energy more expensive and the supply of energy less reliable.

We will:

Scrap the 2008 Climate Change Act and the EU’s Large Combustion Plant Directive
Support ‘fracking’ for shale gas
End subsidies for wind turbines and solar photovoltaic arrays
Support renewable energy where it can deliver electricity at competitive prices
Seek to rejuvenate the coal industry
Abolish ‘green levies’ to cut the cost of fuel bills
Force energy companies to end higher charges for pre-payment meters


http://www.ukip.org/ukip_manifesto_summary

EDIT: had to change the previous link as it was a pay-to-view site. Sorry!
Last edited by Cal on Tue May 12, 2015 12:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Gandalf » Tue May 12, 2015 11:58 am

Ed: 'strawberry float the election, I'm in Ibeefa and I'm here to partay!'

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PostRe: UK General Election 2015
by Skippy » Tue May 12, 2015 12:17 pm

Milibae :wub:

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