UK General Election 2015

Moggy wrote:

massimo wrote:Replying to Taf...

The reasons I voted Tory Scum are like most people, I don't think a Labour led government would be able to keep us out of another recession, and being a home owner now that's something that scares the gooseberry fool out of me. I'm one of them sorts that think, while cuts to services is gooseberry fool, they need to be done to keep us in the black.
On the subject of the NHS, I think making cuts forces an organisation to become ultra lean in its operation. Are people around the UK going to get a shitty experience out of cuts along the line? Yes, guaranteed. What's that saying? You have to break a couple of eggs to make an omelette?
I kinda feel like we're living in the future now. I can't help but think that these progression and how easily accessible technology it is to most people, and organisations, it will pick up the slack for us.

Another reason is, I like David Cameron. I believe his intentions are honest and he wants to build a better future for the country, like Milliband and most party leaders. But, I don't for one minute believe Miliband would command anywhere near enough respect on an international stage.

Now, I'll wait to be crucified by you lot.

You made a massive mistake voting Tory. According to Cal the left wing and Labour are massive Apple supporters. Now you risk the Tories banning the Apple watch.

Haha! I actually started writing a response to Cal re. Apple, I felt it was expected of me.
Truth is, as much as people hate Apple, they're really quite a responsible organisation. They've spent a lot of resources on improving working conditions, pay and education for the workers that build their products (who by the way aren't even employed by Apple, but mostly by Foxconn). 100% of their American operations is run on renewable energy, and the rest of the world is currently at 87% renewal energy. Can't think of any other corporation at that scale that has highlighted their environmental footprint. And Tim Cook, mostly, is a good guy. Perhaps Cal doesn't like him because Cook is gay?

massimo wrote:

Moggy wrote:

massimo wrote:Replying to Taf...

The reasons I voted Tory Scum are like most people, I don't think a Labour led government would be able to keep us out of another recession, and being a home owner now that's something that scares the gooseberry fool out of me. I'm one of them sorts that think, while cuts to services is gooseberry fool, they need to be done to keep us in the black.
On the subject of the NHS, I think making cuts forces an organisation to become ultra lean in its operation. Are people around the UK going to get a shitty experience out of cuts along the line? Yes, guaranteed. What's that saying? You have to break a couple of eggs to make an omelette?
I kinda feel like we're living in the future now. I can't help but think that these progression and how easily accessible technology it is to most people, and organisations, it will pick up the slack for us.

Another reason is, I like David Cameron. I believe his intentions are honest and he wants to build a better future for the country, like Milliband and most party leaders. But, I don't for one minute believe Miliband would command anywhere near enough respect on an international stage.

Now, I'll wait to be crucified by you lot.

You made a massive mistake voting Tory. According to Cal the left wing and Labour are massive Apple supporters. Now you risk the Tories banning the Apple watch.

Haha! I actually started writing a response to Cal re. Apple, I felt it was expected of me.
Truth is, as much as people hate Apple, they're really quite a responsible organisation. They've spent a lot of resources on improving working conditions, pay and education for the workers that build their products (who by the way aren't even employed by Apple, but mostly by Foxconn). 100% of their American operations is run on renewable energy, and the rest of the world is currently at 87% renewal energy. Can't think of any other corporation at that scale that has highlighted their environmental footprint. And Tim Cook, mostly, is a good guy. Perhaps Cal doesn't like him because Cook is gay?

Never ever change Massimo.

lex-man wrote:Have UKIP said anything about fairness? I've been thinking about this and while they didn't win much they got what they really wanted. They got the EU referendum and the removal of the human rights act. They really got the tories to capitulate with their desires.

I'm someone who would have voted UKIP at the General Election if I felt they had any serious chance of getting into Government, but instead voted Conservative for purely tactical reasons (to keep Miliband out and to get the EU referendum 'red lined' by Cameron). The fact that UKIP are left with just one MP after achieving such a huge popular vote (nearly four million people in the UK voted for them, which would have translated to 83 actual seats in Parliament under proportional representation), whilst the Scottish Nationalists, who achieved just 50% of the vote in Scotland somehow made off with almost 100% of the available Parliamentary seats (56). It's a travesty of democracy.

Personally, I'm not in favour of abolishing the Human Rights Act and I don't think it is either fair or correct to assert that anyone who voted Conservative would necessarily be in favour of such a thing. I hope we can renegotiate it, though, so that we are not forced into impossibly silly situations like being prevented from deporting Islamic Militant scumbags back to the hellholes they came from. That would be a good start.

EDIT: Also:



Amber Rudd is the new comically-monikered Energy and Climate Change Secretary
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32683868
Will she be even half as critical of the dominant CAGW narrative as Ed Davey failed utterly to be? Time will tell.
H/T to Bishop Hill for this:

In an interview last year she (Ms Rudd) had this to say:
"The main purpose for me [here] is to get up to speed with the relationships and the issues to do with delivering one of the most important things we're ever going to do, which is limiting global warming to under 2°C. I don't think you could get a cigarette paper between me and Labour on our commitment to getting a deal in Paris."

Say hello to the new boss, same as the old boss. However, it turns out she is a committed shale gas enthusiast, so perhaps not all doom and gloom...

EDIT: In better news:

Veteran Tory MP John Whittingdale is to become Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport

BBC licence fee 'worse than poll tax', says John Whittingdale
Chairman of Department for Culture, Media and Sport committee, says licence fee must be 'tweaked' immediately, with BBC funding methods changed altogether in coming decades

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvan ... gdale.html

Here's hoping.

Apparently UKIP supporters have been calling Farages defeat a conspiracy. LOL

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 39252.html

massimo wrote:Replying to Taf...

The reasons I voted Tory Scum are like most people, I don't think a Labour led government would be able to keep us out of another recession, and being a home owner now that's something that scares the gooseberry fool out of me. I'm one of them sorts that think, while cuts to services is gooseberry fool, they need to be done to keep us in the black.
On the subject of the NHS, I think making cuts forces an organisation to become ultra lean in its operation. Are people around the UK going to get a shitty experience out of cuts along the line? Yes, guaranteed. What's that saying? You have to break a couple of eggs to make an omelette?
I kinda feel like we're living in the future now. I can't help but think that these progression and how easily accessible technology it is to most people, and organisations, it will pick up the slack for us.

Another reason is, I like David Cameron. I believe his intentions are honest and he wants to build a better future for the country, like Milliband and most party leaders. But, I don't for one minute believe Miliband would command anywhere near enough respect on an international stage.

Now, I'll wait to be crucified by you lot.

I weep for humanity, holy fuckinchrist.

After the EU referendum (and the result that keeps us in), is there any reason for UKIP to exist? Pretty sure this is why they're repositioning as an alternative to Labour in the north - the real working man's party. It always seemed strange to me that everyone thought they would take more Tory votes, when the anti-immigration message would - obviously, it seemed to me - have resonated more with the working classes... as we saw in the GE results. Whenever you see a passionate UKIP supporter on the news spouting their rhetoric, it's never a Tory landowner!

Eighthours wrote:After the EU referendum (and the result that keeps us in), is there any reason for UKIP to exist? Pretty sure this is why they're repositioning as an alternative to Labour in the north - the real working man's party. It always seemed strange to me that everyone thought they would take more Tory votes, when the anti-immigration message would - obviously, it seemed to me - have resonated more with the working classes... as we saw in the GE results. Whenever you see a passionate UKIP supporter on the news spouting their rhetoric, it's never a Tory landowner!

UKIP have good grounds to go on campaigning for electoral reform. But I agree with you that once it's clear (after the referendum) that the majority in the UK wish to remain within the EU it does kinda render their entire raison d'etre rather meaningless.

I can't wait for the Europe/immigrant thing to hopefully be over with.

I've paid more attention in this election than I have for a long time, I studied politics at sixth form but since have lost interest.

Have really gotten into it this time round, I think I am going to do more in the next election in terms of volunteer work, am also tempted to try and get involved more with my local labour branch and see if I can maybe stand in local council.

Our Labour candidate my not have won but she has really got people more interested which is good, even my other half has started paying attention and she didn't really care before, she just voted Labour because I did and her mum did.

Cal wrote:
EDIT: Also:



Amber Rudd is the new comically-monikered Energy and Climate Change Secretary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32683868

Will she be even half as critical of the dominant CAGW narrative as Ed Davey failed utterly to be? Time will tell.

She is my MP and is a waste of space. She stood where I am because she "saw the cons would win and wanted to be near London" and has done jack gooseberry fool for the town in the last 5 years and I imagine will be piss poor for the next 5.

What are the current opinion polls on Europe? I don't see it being anywhere near as close as the Scottish referendum (which actually wasn't that close in the end). I just don't see the point in doing it. If they respect the 'stay in' vote and actually integrate properly into the EU rather than continue to shout from the sidelines then fair enough. However I don't want to see the same thing happen as has with Scotland where the decision gets ignored and the issue rumbles on and on.

Errkal wrote:

Cal wrote:
EDIT: Also:



Amber Rudd is the new comically-monikered Energy and Climate Change Secretary

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2015-32683868

Will she be even half as critical of the dominant CAGW narrative as Ed Davey failed utterly to be? Time will tell.

She is my MP and is a waste of space. She stood where I am because she "saw the cons would win and wanted to be near London" and has done jack gooseberry fool for the town in the last 5 years and I imagine will be piss poor for the next 5.

But what about the dominant CAGW narrative that Ed Davey failed to be critical of?

Don't know, don't care. didn't read that bit, I must have figured it was just cal ramblings again.

I didn't vote Tory but my ideal outcome was a Tory majority since it became clear that UKIP wouldn't get enough MPs to act as UKIP tail wagging the Tory dog.

Tories had better policies on the economy and a far better leader than Labour. Also it's nonsense to say that the Tories will privatise the NHS, it's political suicide to change the system to a USA healthcare model.

Looking at their manifesto and their last 5 years, I imagine people voted for them due to:

The economy is better now than it was in 2010
Changes to stamp duty back in December, eliminating the hated 3% step effect
Labour and Miliband's refusal to acknowledge they strawberry floated up and their shift to the left
Raising income tax threshold to £12,500
Raise the 40% income tax rate to kick in at £50,000
Take the family home out of tax by increasing Inheritance Tax threshold for married couples and civil partners to £1 million
Eliminating the deficit and then running a budget surplus to reduce the National Debt
No increases in VAT, National Insurance contributions or Income Tax
Lower the amount of benefits that any household can receive to £23,000
Families where all parents are working will get 30 hours of free childcare for their three and four year-olds
Promise of an EU in or out referendum no later than 2017
Spend at least an additional £8 billion by 2020 over and above inflation to fund and support the NHS’s own action plan for the next five years
English votes for English laws

I think a large part of Labour's collapse is probably that UKIP take Labour votes just as much as Tory votes but Tory voters stuck with Tories due to the fear of the darkest timeline: Labour SNP coalition.

Grumpy David wrote:Labour SNP coalition.

I think the way the Conservatives really pushed the idea of that being a possibility went a long way to convincing a lot of people that they needed to do what they could (i.e. vote Tory) to stop it happening. Just an awful prospect.

Also, a lot of people who are spewing hate at those who voted Tory seem to assume that we're all die-hard conservatives who worship at the altar of David Cameron and Tory policies. For me that's certainly not the case - they were just the best of a bad bunch.

Grumpy David wrote:

The economy is better now than it was in 2010
Changes to stamp duty back in December, eliminating the hated 3% step effect
Labour and Miliband's refusal to acknowledge they strawberry floated up and their shift to the left
Raising income tax threshold to £12,500
Raise the 40% income tax rate to kick in at £50,000
Take the family home out of tax by increasing Inheritance Tax threshold for married couples and civil partners to £1 million
Eliminating the deficit and then running a budget surplus to reduce the National Debt
No increases in VAT, National Insurance contributions or Income Tax
Lower the amount of benefits that any household can receive to £23,000
Families where all parents are working will get 30 hours of free childcare for their three and four year-olds
Promise of an EU in or out referendum no later than 2017
Spend at least an additional £8 billion by 2020 over and above inflation to fund and support the NHS’s own action plan for the next five years
English votes for English laws

As one half of a childless couple who, touch wood, are doing ok at the moment, I can't deny that most of the above have been good for us. The stamp duty switch saw us pocket an extra £150 or so - not massive, but very helpful when you're moving house.

We did both lose our jobs in 2012 - we worked together and it was the darkest four months of our lives - but we pulled through and didn't miss any mortgage or loan payments.

Now, my job is dependent on other small businesses performing well, and having some marketing budget to spend. Labour have to face up to the fact that their offer to small business (and business generally) was very poor.

There are a list of polls on Wikipedia.

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposed ... pean_Union

It looks like we would stay but it's pretty close.

If Cameron gets a token gesture from his renegotiations (which he will - it'll be something that looks flashy on the surface but pretty meaningless underneath), then the Yes side will walk the EU referendum. I've never got Labour's line on denying people this vote - it's an authoritarian, condescending and pretty stupid attitude, although treating the public like fools has for too long been a Labour flaw.

Lotus wrote:

Grumpy David wrote:Labour SNP coalition.

I think the way the Conservatives really pushed the idea of that being a possibility went a long way to convincing a lot of people that they needed to do what they could (i.e. vote Tory) to stop it happening. Just an awful prospect.

Also, a lot of people who are spewing hate at those who voted Tory seem to assume that we're all die-hard conservatives who worship at the altar of David Cameron and Tory policies. For me that's certainly not the case - they were just the best of a bad bunch.

Hear, hear. For me it was pragmatic decision to vote Tory. Can't say I'm in agreement with much of what they stand for, but stopping Labour at all costs was my No.1 priority. Job done.

Cal wrote:stopping Labour at all costs was my No.1 priority. Job done.

You're like some kind of hero. How did you pull it off?