[DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread

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Cal
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Cal » Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:22 pm

UK economy back at pre-crisis level

The UK economy has returned to pre-crisis levels by expanding 0.8% in the second quarter of this year. On an annual basis gross domestic product (GDP) expanded by 3.1%. The figures show the economy is now worth 0.2% more than it was at its peak in 2008, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said. The service sector is the only part of the economy that has passed its previous 2008 peak, although that accounts for almost 80% of UK output. The UK economy is forecast to be the fastest growing among the G7 developed nations, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). On Thursday, the IMF predicted the UK would expand by 3.2% this year, up from a previous forecast of 2.8%.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28479902

It's easy to miss stuff like this around here, since nobody here wants to admit that this coalition government have actually done a pretty remarkable thing. I think it's a fantastic achievement, given the sheer size of the financial hole bequeathed to us by the last Labour government - crooks and liars all. The BBC are quick to attempt downplaying the latest statistics (see the link), but even Peston has to grudgingly admit that the final stats might be even better news.

Okay, you can now all 'correct me' as to how this country has actually gone down the plughole and everyone's on zero hours contracts, so the figures are lying, etc.

God forbid Labour get in at the next General Election :dread: - just in time to cash-in the country's economic upturn and p*ss it all away - again.

Last edited by Skarjo on Fri Jul 25, 2014 5:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: User banned for baiting and passive trolling.
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Grumpy David
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Grumpy David » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:02 pm

There is no reason why Cal should have been banned for the above post. Neither baiting or passive trolling.

It is a fact that each Labour goverment ends in ruin. They leave office in a worst way than when they enter it. Or to quote Fatal Exception, they "accidentally a whole economy".

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Memento Mori
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Memento Mori » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:07 pm

[iup=3515931]Cal[/iup] wrote:

It's easy to miss stuff like this around here, since nobody here wants to admit that this coalition government have actually done a pretty remarkable thing. I think it's a fantastic achievement, given the sheer size of the financial hole bequeathed to us by the last Labour government - crooks and liars all. The BBC are quick to attempt downplaying the latest statistics (see the link), but even Peston has to grudgingly admit that the final stats might be even better news.

Okay, you can now all 'correct me' as to how this country has actually gone down the plughole and everyone's on zero hours contracts, so the figures are lying, etc.

God forbid Labour get in at the next General Election :dread: - just in time to cash-in the country's economic upturn and p*ss it all away - again.


I think those are probably the sentences he was banned for.

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Rocsteady » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:09 pm

Wait, he got banned for that? That does seem ridiculously OTT and I think he talks as much shite as anyone.

There are more important factors than simply GDP figures to the general population. If general quality of life has fallen for the majority then strawberry float a small percentage rise in GDP, really. Having said that, it is obviously good news.

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Skarjo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Skarjo » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:27 pm

Cal wasn't banned for disagreeing with anyone.

He was banned for misrepresenting his opponent's views in a condescending and belittling way. Nobody who presents any argument, from either side of the fence, will be silenced unless they present their views in a way that doesn't encourage constructive debate.

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Moggy
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Moggy » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:30 pm

[iup=3515987]Grumpy David[/iup] wrote:There is no reason why Cal should have been banned for the above post. Neither baiting or passive trolling.

It is a fact that each Labour goverment ends in ruin. They leave office in a worst way than when they enter it. Or to quote Fatal Exception, they "accidentally a whole economy".


I agree Cal should not have been banned for that.

I think you and Cal's arguments are wrong though and I am no Labour fan. To celebrate the Torys getting back to the level that Labour got us to seems wrong. Labour had been in power for 11 years by the time we got to the 2008 numbers, it's wrong to suggest that its Labour that caused ruin, while at the same time celebrating that we are now where the Labour government got us.

It was a worldwide crash, Labour could have done better to prepare us, but the recession/depression started in America and affected a lot of countries in the world. It's also wrong to blame every recession on Labour, I remember well the recessions of the late 80s and the recessions in the 90s.

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Snowcannon
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Snowcannon » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:40 pm

[iup=3515931]Cal[/iup] wrote:
UK economy back at pre-crisis level

The UK economy has returned to pre-crisis levels by expanding 0.8% in the second quarter of this year. On an annual basis gross domestic product (GDP) expanded by 3.1%. The figures show the economy is now worth 0.2% more than it was at its peak in 2008, the Office for National Statistics (ONS) said. The service sector is the only part of the economy that has passed its previous 2008 peak, although that accounts for almost 80% of UK output. The UK economy is forecast to be the fastest growing among the G7 developed nations, according to the International Monetary Fund (IMF). On Thursday, the IMF predicted the UK would expand by 3.2% this year, up from a previous forecast of 2.8%.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-28479902

It's easy to miss stuff like this around here, since nobody here wants to admit that this coalition government have actually done a pretty remarkable thing. I think it's a fantastic achievement, given the sheer size of the financial hole bequeathed to us by the last Labour government - crooks and liars all. The BBC are quick to attempt downplaying the latest statistics (see the link), but even Peston has to grudgingly admit that the final stats might be even better news.

Okay, you can now all 'correct me' as to how this country has actually gone down the plughole and everyone's on zero hours contracts, so the figures are lying, etc.

God forbid Labour get in at the next General Election :dread: - just in time to cash-in the country's economic upturn and p*ss it all away - again.


A recovery for who though? And I don't really think you can say 'the government achieved it' as there are so many other factors at play.

I think it's a disgrace Cal was banned for this post tbh. Modding gone OTT

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That
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by That » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:42 pm

Oh for heaven's sake, he obviously wasn't banned for that individual post per se, he was banned for the entire gamut of clearly rules-breaching tripe that he's posted across the board nigh-constantly since the moment new rules on discussions have been implemented.

It's very difficult for the moderators to ban people on repeat warnings because every time it happens a load of do-gooders pipe up with "oh, that was maybe worth a warning, but not a ban!" That plainly isn't how a strikes-and-out system should (or ever could!) work.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Snowcannon » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:50 pm

[iup=3516017]Kawaii[/iup] wrote:Oh for heaven's sake, he obviously wasn't banned for that individual post per se, he was banned for the entire gamut of clearly rules-breaching tripe that he's posted across the board nigh-constantly since the moment new rules on discussions have been implemented.

It's very difficult for the moderators to ban people on repeat warnings because every time it happens a load of do-gooders pipe up with "oh, that was maybe worth a warning, but not a ban!" That plainly isn't how a strikes-and-out system should (or ever could!) work.


Problem highlighted in bold

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Skarjo
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Skarjo » Fri Jul 25, 2014 7:55 pm

Cal was already on a warning for trolling, and had also left a request for a source on a contentious claim go unanswered.

Thus, another post that misrepresented the opposition's views in a particularly condescending and belittling way would not be conducive to a constructive debate. A ban was therefore issued.

Karl wrote:Can't believe I got baited into expressing a political stance on hentai

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Hexx
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Hexx » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:03 pm

So - Ed Milliband on leadership.


Thoughts ?

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Vermin
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Vermin » Fri Jul 25, 2014 8:37 pm

No matter the straw man of image vs substance that Ed's now using to attempt to gain some respect, I've always found - from when he first emerged years back - his mimicking of Blair's voice and mannerisms to be most upsetting to my eyes and ears; so that irrational disgust has always got in the way of deeper thought on the man.

One could perhaps take a look at this table of voting behaviour to try to see what he believes in, I suppose.

In short: nah

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Meep
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Meep » Sat Jul 26, 2014 12:49 am

Individuals are not close to having gotten back to the pre-crisis level; the GDP balance is largely due to population growth. Wages still aren't keeping up with inflation and most of the growth in income has occurred within the upper end of the income scale with medium and lower incomes stagnating. So, yeah, don't be surprised if you don't feel any better off personally because you probably are not.

Still, we're getting there, albeit much more slowly than anyone would have thought. I think the main challenge facing this government and the government after is reducing household debt and pushing up wages (the latter being the prime means of achieving the former). That isn't really easy because the government cannot directly affect those things in very many ways without sever side effects. Still, hiking up minimum wage could raise the "floor" and push average earnings up while tougher oversight might help alleviate risk from personal finance.

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Imrahil
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Imrahil » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:40 am

Wow, this is utterly pathetic.

Does this forum really want to be the kind of forum that bans someone because of posting that? I had a look at that [DISCUSSION] thread at the top of the page. It's unworkable and open to massive inconsistencies. It's just all got out of hand. The mods/admin responsible has got way too much time on their hands.

If someone posts something that's perceived to be a bit tiresome, just strawberry floating ignore it. Cal clearly contributes the majority of his posts elsewhere without any problems. It's not like he's posting goatse or anything.

I think some people here just need to grow up - and it ain't Cal.

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Winckle
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Winckle » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:51 am

No, it's definitely Cal. But this thread isn't the place for this discussion.

We should migrate GRcade to Flarum. :toot:
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Buffalo
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Post[DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Buffalo » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:52 am

What, you think we actually *wanted* to implement those rules?

We didn't really have much choice. If you want to point the finger, point it at several of those forumites who can't speak to each other with a modicum of respect and decency, and those who can not (and will not) engage in any mature, reasoned debate unless they're being agreed with.

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Qikz » Sat Jul 26, 2014 1:00 pm

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014 ... ndon-flats

I can't believe this article is real, are we back in the Victorian times again?

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Meep
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Meep » Sat Jul 26, 2014 9:28 pm

I think there has been a similar trend in regard to homeless people. Used to be the big issue was securing shelter but now lots of local rulings are being passed to stop people from sleeping or begging outside areas they want to keep looking tidy. I suppose if you don't ever cross paths with any poor people you can pretend they don't exist and feel less guilty about your grossly inflated earnings.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Grumpy David » Sat Jul 26, 2014 10:42 pm

I imagine the service charge on those flats would be close to, if not more than £200 a month on top of their mortgage. I can't see a housing association wanting to pay that kind of money when the article states they have a cap on service charges. Given neither side would budge, I can't see any other solution if they have to provide HA developments but the HA won't pay stupid money for service charges.

Zone 1 is really quite a small area and so crazy expensive that they should probably just exempt it from having to build HA properties as part of luxury flats. I can totally see the benefit of peppering across the rest of London since flats outside of zone 1 are unlikely to have excessive service charges and therefore have no lower class entrance, plus giant council estate areas are one of the worst urban infrastructure ideas ever.

[iup=3514016]Kawaii[/iup] wrote:I missed a part of Grumpy David's post. I think I could be convinced about the greenbelt land issue - I don't really know enough about it - what are the main arguments for it, David?

The greenbelt land near me was half crap fields that no-one would want to visit, and half nice, well-maintained parkland - the council bulldozed the fields and kept the park. I thought that was probably fair enough. Are greenbelts in general more "wild" or more nice areas to walk? I would be cautious about removing usable public green spaces from near cities, at least.


Greenbelt land isn't ecologically important land (although parts of it can be), it's a political creation rather than a scientific argument. Surrey has more land for golf courses than homes! Yet homes are far more useful to far more people.

I quite like this article about the greenbelt: http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/apr/26/why-surrey-has-more-golf-courses-land-than-homes

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PostRe: [DISCUSSION] The Politics Thread
by Dowbocop » Sat Jul 26, 2014 11:49 pm

Zone 1 is dependent on what TfL want it to be, so you couldn't use it for that sort of thing. It's also not just Westminster and the City, it goes quite far out. Some of my friends in school were in council houses in Zone 1. As it happens one of them has a council flat just off Oxford Street now, the lucky bastard :lol:

I can understand people not paying the service charge not being entitled to a 24 hour concierge service or the other perks, but they've put extra doors and lifts in just to stop people using the same corridors (which the management company have to clean, maintain, and secure anyway, at extra cost), and they've done it simply so the elite don't have to share a corridor with the riff raff. It's Upstairs Downstairs, and it's disgraceful. Doors, lifts, postboxes and friendliness aren't premium services.


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