Unreal Engine 4

bear wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:

Rik wrote:In other words Epic aren't interested but anyone else can make a Wii U UE4 game if they want. You have to wonder if Nintendo took on board any input from third parties at all.

Nintendo has been going out of its way to attract third parties, but some are just dicks.

Damn those companies and their desire to make money. Greedy sods.

You make more money when you support more platforms. By avoiding the Wii U, they're avoiding another source of revenue.

If enough of Epics customers were approaching them asking for UE4 on Wii-U then Epic would deliver UE4 on Wii-U. Rein going around saying they have no plans for UE4 on Wii-U is a fairly strong indication that there isn't a demand for it and that most UE4 games are being targeted at the PC, PS4 and next Xbox. Only time will tell if that's a smart move.

Many developers probably won't want to use UE4 anyway. It's a very closed-space type engine compared to its predecessor. I don't think a lot of developers will want to make the switch to it any time in the near future, even on high end new consoles.

HSH28 wrote:

Rik wrote:In other words Epic aren't interested but anyone else can make a Wii U UE4 game if they want. You have to wonder if Nintendo took on board any input from third parties at all.

What the hell does that even mean?

Clearly the Wii U doesn't support all these fancy new graphical features, but you don't need Epic to tell you that and just because it doesn't doesn't mean they didn't talk to 3rd parties about what they wanted.

If Epic say we want the most powerful up to date PC components in your next consoles, does it mean the console creators aren't listening when they don't follow through on that?

If you make a console like Wii which is basically a last gen console with a new control input then technically next gen games can not be scaled to it, that is what Nintendo found out last gen, despite having the best selling console. They have basically pulled the same trick again, you have a developer there describing it as not "true next gen", now I'm not saying they have to match what Sony and Microsoft are doing but they should at least have a machine that is the bottom end of the next gen engine scale, I get the feeling Wii U isn't that.

It is rather tiresome, even for a Nintendo fan like myself, to see them once again falling behind on the old power scale (hopefully they'll supercharge their next-next-gen machine), but UE4 is supposed to be scaleable down to mobile devices. Ergo, it should work just fine on the Wii U, even if it doesn't look nearly as nice on there as on the PS4 et al. But as I said, not that many developers are going to want to touch it for a good while yet, so its absence is hardly going to be noticed for a good while.

Alvin Flummux wrote:Many developers probably won't want to use UE4 anyway. It's a very closed-space type engine compared to its predecessor. I don't think a lot of developers will want to make the switch to it any time in the near future, even on high end new consoles.

Seems like you've almost reached the third stage of grief now...

Alvin Flummux wrote:It is rather tiresome, even for a Nintendo fan like myself, to see them once again falling behind on the old power scale (hopefully they'll supercharge their next-next-gen machine), but UE4 is supposed to be scaleable down to mobile devices. Ergo, it should work just fine on the Wii U, even if it doesn't look nearly as nice on there as on the PS4 et al. But as I said, not that many developers are going to want to touch it for a good while yet, so its absence is hardly going to be noticed for a good while.

Well that didn't happen last time, Wii U is more than powerful enough for Nintendo's cartoony games, but for multiplatform just get a PS4, Nextbox or upgrade your PC, multiplatform just ain't coming back to Ninty consoles, and Nintendo only have themselves to blame.

NickSCFC wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:It is rather tiresome, even for a Nintendo fan like myself, to see them once again falling behind on the old power scale (hopefully they'll supercharge their next-next-gen machine), but UE4 is supposed to be scaleable down to mobile devices. Ergo, it should work just fine on the Wii U, even if it doesn't look nearly as nice on there as on the PS4 et al. But as I said, not that many developers are going to want to touch it for a good while yet, so its absence is hardly going to be noticed for a good while.

Well that didn't happen last time, Wii U is more than powerful enough for Nintendo's cartoony games, but for multiplatform just get a PS4, Nextbox or upgrade your PC, multiplatform just ain't coming back to Ninty consoles, and Nintendo only have themselves to blame.

The generational power gap isn't anything like the last one, and UE4, Fox Engine etc all should work on the Wii U, so by that logic I'd say that many multiplatform games will be entirely capable of coming to the Wii U, at least in the first half of the next generation. It's company relations that seem to be determining Nintendo third party support, not tech limitations.

The generational gap isn't anything like the last one

That might not be the case.

The confirmed PS4 specs have SIXTEEN times the amount of Ram of a PS3 at a over 170 GB/s for starters, you think anything designed even around that one spec will run in any capacity on the 1gb DDR3 at 13 GB/s?

Alvin Flummux wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:

Alvin Flummux wrote:It is rather tiresome, even for a Nintendo fan like myself, to see them once again falling behind on the old power scale (hopefully they'll supercharge their next-next-gen machine), but UE4 is supposed to be scaleable down to mobile devices. Ergo, it should work just fine on the Wii U, even if it doesn't look nearly as nice on there as on the PS4 et al. But as I said, not that many developers are going to want to touch it for a good while yet, so its absence is hardly going to be noticed for a good while.

Well that didn't happen last time, Wii U is more than powerful enough for Nintendo's cartoony games, but for multiplatform just get a PS4, Nextbox or upgrade your PC, multiplatform just ain't coming back to Ninty consoles, and Nintendo only have themselves to blame.

The generational power gap isn't anything like the last one, and UE4, Fox Engine etc all should work on the Wii U, so by that logic I'd say that many multiplatform games will be entirely capable of coming to the Wii U, at least in the first half of the next generation. It's company relations that seem to be determining Nintendo third party support, not tech limitations.

Yeah keep telling yourself that, Nintendo will be just as far behind next-gen as they were this. It's the same reason there aren't any Unreal Engine 3 games on the Wii/3DS.

Rik wrote:

The generational gap isn't anything like the last one

That might not be the case.

The confirmed PS4 specs have SIXTEEN times the amount of Ram of a PS3 at a over 170 GB/s for starters, you think anything designed even around that one spec will run in any capacity on the 1gb DDR3 at 13 GB/s?

It clearly is the case actually.

At the end of the last generation there were games which appeared on both that generation and this generation...but nothing like as many as we know about right now. Almost every none exclusive next gen game we know about is also coming to this generation.

Now going forward that will obviously change, but it doesn't change the fact that the difference isn't what it was last generation.

That's more to do with development costs/time and the decline of exclusives compared to 8 years ago, not the difference in power.

HSH28 wrote:

Rik wrote:

The generational gap isn't anything like the last one

That might not be the case.

The confirmed PS4 specs have SIXTEEN times the amount of Ram of a PS3 at a over 170 GB/s for starters, you think anything designed even around that one spec will run in any capacity on the 1gb DDR3 at 13 GB/s?

It clearly is the case actually.

At the end of the last generation there were games which appeared on both that generation and this generation...but nothing like as many as we know about right now. Almost every none exclusive next gen game we know about is also coming to this generation.

Now going forward that will obviously change, but it doesn't change the fact that the difference isn't what it was last generation.

Epic's Mark Rein said in an interview he believes the jump in power next generation is actually bigger than last. Different people will have different opinions on it but specs wise it's at least as big of a jump, largely due to the huge gap between 360 launch and now. Xbox had only been out 4 years when 360 turned up.

NickSCFC wrote:That's more to do with development costs/time and the decline of exclusives compared to 8 years ago, not the difference in power.

Which matters not one little bit.

DaveDS wrote:Epic's Mark Rein said in an interview he believes the jump in power next generation is actually bigger than last. Different people will have different opinions on it but specs wise it's at least as big of a jump, largely due to the huge gap between 360 launch and now. Xbox had only been out 4 years when 360 turned up.

In absolute terms perhaps it is, but as a percentage increase I'm not so sure.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter if they can't harness that power in useful ways. There's also the matter of diminishing returns. It doesn't matter if the new tech is so massively more powerful if its not blatantly obvious that it is.

Compare latter day PS2/Xbox/GC games to what we have today. The difference is huge, now look at the tech demos of next gen and again compare to what we have today. Yes there's a clear difference, but at the moment it doesn't look to me as big as I remember the step to 360 was.

The last couple of generations should have taught you not to judge a consoles capabilities on pre release gameplay or even first generation games. I actually remember the same exact thing being talked about at the start of last generation. No doubt we'll get the same talk about PS5, x4ox, Wii U II (maybe).

Still, whatever way you look at it, that latest UE4 demo is a gigantic leap over even the best looking current gen games. I'm still not totally convinced what we saw was 100% realtime, either way, Epic seem to claiming we'll see this kind of quality on PS4.

DaveDS wrote:Still, whatever way you look at it, that latest UE4 demo is a gigantic leap over even the best looking current gen games.

There are more and higher quality effects, but if you took some of that out you could get functionally the same thing running on current gen without compromising it too much.

Games already look great, making them look better doesn't have the same effect that it did last generation as far as I'm concerned.

HSH28 wrote:

Rik wrote:

The generational gap isn't anything like the last one

That might not be the case.

The confirmed PS4 specs have SIXTEEN times the amount of Ram of a PS3 at a over 170 GB/s for starters, you think anything designed even around that one spec will run in any capacity on the 1gb DDR3 at 13 GB/s?

It clearly is the case actually.

At the end of the last generation there were games which appeared on both that generation and this generation...but nothing like as many as we know about right now. Almost every none exclusive next gen game we know about is also coming to this generation.

Now going forward that will obviously change, but it doesn't change the fact that the difference isn't what it was last generation.

That's because games are still being designed with 360/PS3 in mind, they are at the moment being up ported to new consoles, when games are actually designed around next gen specs like I said then the difference will be more than apparent.

Unreal Engine 4 coming to nVidia Keplar powered phones

http://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2013/07/24/sweeney/