US Politics

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Partridge Iciclebubbles
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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Tue Aug 07, 2018 11:35 am

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Starting to think this Infowars ban is a massive own goal. They have handed Jones a massive amount of mainstream publicity, when his site and his own profile have always been way out on the fringes and very niche. I don't know of anyone on the right or left that actually takes him seriously anyway.

I think his YouTube channel only had 30,000 subscribers, but he has been given publicity to millions of mainstream TV and news site viewers.


It’s not an “Infowars ban”, some websites have just decided that they don’t want to host his content. There is therefore no “own goal”, it just means YouTube and other websites don’t want to be associated with him.

And if you don’t think people take him very seriously then you should take a look at the gooseberry fool the parents of the murdered Sandy Hook children get. Directly thanks to Alex Jones being a massive banana split. People, including the current President of the United States, take him very seriously indeed.

Yes Sandy Hook was a disgrace and those videos should have been blocked. Its baffling they didn't take action at the time. Frankly questions should be asked why action wasn't taken 6 years ago.

I'm talking generally in terms of his effect on mainstream politics and culture. He is a nobody that generally isn't taken seriously aside from a handful of nutcases who would harass families of murder victims no matter who is the catalyst.

I think you are playing with semantics. The main social media sites have banned him. I don't defend Alex Jones, I'm just criticising the way they went about this after waiting so long. It's given him an even larger platform than he could have ever dreamed of, making headline news across the globe. No doubt this will drive new subscribers to his main website and he will be able to keep his profile high for a long time off the back of this. He thrives on this sort of thing. His videos today of his trademark rant about it are being shared all over twitter.

Like I say, he should have been banned 6 years ago when he initially made his disgusting and idiotic comments about Sandy Hook.


Playing with semantics? You mean pointing out that Infowars has not been “banned” and that the President of the USA takes Alex Jones very seriously?

Your argument appears to be that Infowars should have been taken off of YouTube 6 years ago, but as it wasn’t it should now stay there in case it causes an own goal and gives Alex Jones more publicity? Is that seriously your argument?

Alex Jones is a scumbag and far more people listen to him that you seem to be able to imagine. Of course his filth should have been removed years ago. But it wasn’t. And it is now a good thing (a really bloody good thing!) that it has been.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Hexx » Tue Aug 07, 2018 4:04 pm


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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by captain red dog » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:10 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Starting to think this Infowars ban is a massive own goal. They have handed Jones a massive amount of mainstream publicity, when his site and his own profile have always been way out on the fringes and very niche. I don't know of anyone on the right or left that actually takes him seriously anyway.

I think his YouTube channel only had 30,000 subscribers, but he has been given publicity to millions of mainstream TV and news site viewers.


It’s not an “Infowars ban”, some websites have just decided that they don’t want to host his content. There is therefore no “own goal”, it just means YouTube and other websites don’t want to be associated with him.

And if you don’t think people take him very seriously then you should take a look at the gooseberry fool the parents of the murdered Sandy Hook children get. Directly thanks to Alex Jones being a massive banana split. People, including the current President of the United States, take him very seriously indeed.

Yes Sandy Hook was a disgrace and those videos should have been blocked. Its baffling they didn't take action at the time. Frankly questions should be asked why action wasn't taken 6 years ago.

I'm talking generally in terms of his effect on mainstream politics and culture. He is a nobody that generally isn't taken seriously aside from a handful of nutcases who would harass families of murder victims no matter who is the catalyst.

I think you are playing with semantics. The main social media sites have banned him. I don't defend Alex Jones, I'm just criticising the way they went about this after waiting so long. It's given him an even larger platform than he could have ever dreamed of, making headline news across the globe. No doubt this will drive new subscribers to his main website and he will be able to keep his profile high for a long time off the back of this. He thrives on this sort of thing. His videos today of his trademark rant about it are being shared all over twitter.

Like I say, he should have been banned 6 years ago when he initially made his disgusting and idiotic comments about Sandy Hook.


Playing with semantics? You mean pointing out that Infowars has not been “banned” and that the President of the USA takes Alex Jones very seriously?

Your argument appears to be that Infowars should have been taken off of YouTube 6 years ago, but as it wasn’t it should now stay there in case it causes an own goal and gives Alex Jones more publicity? Is that seriously your argument?

Alex Jones is a scumbag and far more people listen to him that you seem to be able to imagine. Of course his filth should have been removed years ago. But it wasn’t. And it is now a good thing (a really bloody good thing!) that it has been.

Fear Alex Jones? Honestly that's just ridiculous. The guy pedals shite, is an admitted actor and only a very small niche takes him seriously. I sincerely doubt Trump takes him seriously,he used him when it was expedient.

Yes they should have banned him 6 years ago when he very clearly broke all kinds of Ts and Cs. The fact they didn't, but now see fit to is just baffling.

Facebook, YouTube etc now have a monopoly on the public sphere in terms of speech so yes it does amount to a ban.

Kyle Kulinski has a great take on this that I whole heartedly agree with:

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Tue Aug 07, 2018 6:22 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:Starting to think this Infowars ban is a massive own goal. They have handed Jones a massive amount of mainstream publicity, when his site and his own profile have always been way out on the fringes and very niche. I don't know of anyone on the right or left that actually takes him seriously anyway.

I think his YouTube channel only had 30,000 subscribers, but he has been given publicity to millions of mainstream TV and news site viewers.


It’s not an “Infowars ban”, some websites have just decided that they don’t want to host his content. There is therefore no “own goal”, it just means YouTube and other websites don’t want to be associated with him.

And if you don’t think people take him very seriously then you should take a look at the gooseberry fool the parents of the murdered Sandy Hook children get. Directly thanks to Alex Jones being a massive banana split. People, including the current President of the United States, take him very seriously indeed.

Yes Sandy Hook was a disgrace and those videos should have been blocked. Its baffling they didn't take action at the time. Frankly questions should be asked why action wasn't taken 6 years ago.

I'm talking generally in terms of his effect on mainstream politics and culture. He is a nobody that generally isn't taken seriously aside from a handful of nutcases who would harass families of murder victims no matter who is the catalyst.

I think you are playing with semantics. The main social media sites have banned him. I don't defend Alex Jones, I'm just criticising the way they went about this after waiting so long. It's given him an even larger platform than he could have ever dreamed of, making headline news across the globe. No doubt this will drive new subscribers to his main website and he will be able to keep his profile high for a long time off the back of this. He thrives on this sort of thing. His videos today of his trademark rant about it are being shared all over twitter.

Like I say, he should have been banned 6 years ago when he initially made his disgusting and idiotic comments about Sandy Hook.


Playing with semantics? You mean pointing out that Infowars has not been “banned” and that the President of the USA takes Alex Jones very seriously?

Your argument appears to be that Infowars should have been taken off of YouTube 6 years ago, but as it wasn’t it should now stay there in case it causes an own goal and gives Alex Jones more publicity? Is that seriously your argument?

Alex Jones is a scumbag and far more people listen to him that you seem to be able to imagine. Of course his filth should have been removed years ago. But it wasn’t. And it is now a good thing (a really bloody good thing!) that it has been.

Fear Alex Jones? Honestly that's just ridiculous. The guy pedals shite, is an admitted actor and only a very small niche takes him seriously. I sincerely doubt Trump takes him seriously,he used him when it was expedient.

Yes they should have banned him 6 years ago when he very clearly broke all kinds of Ts and Cs. The fact they didn't, but now see fit to is just baffling.

Facebook, YouTube etc now have a monopoly on the public sphere in terms of speech so yes it does amount to a ban.


Fear? Where did I say I feared him?

I fear what he does to people. You may well disagree but the peddling of hate and conspiracy is tearing the Western world apart at the moment.

There is no ban on freedom of speech. Youtube and Facebook do not have a monopoly. What a ridiculous claim.

It being fine to remove Alex Jones 6 years ago but not now is a bizarre argument. Especially from a self proclaimed left winger....

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Saigon Slick » Tue Aug 07, 2018 7:07 pm

Hexx wrote:


This tweet has managed to make me really angry. How dare he even considering invoking imagery like that to this end. Shame on him.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by KK » Tue Aug 07, 2018 9:44 pm

The 2nd episode of Ed Balls in Trumpland, focusing on guns, sure is compelling viewing. On iPlayer and worth watching, as is ep. 1.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Silent Right » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:04 am

So was there a specific reason all these sites started pulling Alex Jones down now?

I don't really think it matters if all the social media sites were to block him all at once, or if it happened over a longer period of time for specific violations as Jones would just always claim it was the Lizard People Deep state going after him, but it would probably be getting less main stream media attention.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Squinty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 7:17 am

Corazon de Leon wrote:
Hexx wrote:


This tweet has managed to make me really angry. How dare he even considering invoking imagery like that to this end. Shame on him.


Yea but teh whit holocause hs began!!! IT'S DA KALERGI PLANZ.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Rudolphin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 8:50 am

Rightey wrote:So was there a specific reason all these sites started pulling Alex Jones down now?

I don't really think it matters if all the social media sites were to block him all at once, or if it happened over a longer period of time for specific violations as Jones would just always claim it was the Lizard People Deep state going after him, but it would probably be getting less main stream media attention.


Apple banned his podcast from iTunes and it led to a weird corporate social responsibility domino/daisy chain of events. No clue why Apple chose to kick the strawberry floater out.

EDIT:

And of course, the human trash fire that is Twitter CEO Jack Dorsey has defended their decision to not kick Jones out.

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/ ... CMP=twt_gu

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Preezy » Wed Aug 08, 2018 9:33 am

Twitter shouldn't have to defend their decision, just as Apple and Youtube shouldn't have to defend theirs. They're all private corporations that are free to deny/allow whoever they like on their platform.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Squinty » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:20 pm

Depends what the content on Twitter is, really.

I do feel some of his reasoning is a bit naive though. You can debunk misleading or outright wrong information, but usually the damage is already done, and the people who have to be engaged with don't listen.

But yeah, purely it is their platform, to do whatever they want with it. I would rather he wasn't given any platform, but if Twitter think it conforms to their rules, then fair enough.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Hexx » Wed Aug 08, 2018 12:35 pm

Preezy wrote:Twitter shouldn't have to defend their decision, just as Apple and Youtube shouldn't have to defend theirs. They're all private corporations that are free to deny/allow whoever they like on their platform.


Depends on the decision

"Why have you decided not to allow violence inciting hate speech on your platform" shouldn't really need defending

"Why have you decided to continue to allow violence inciting hate speech on your platform" is a bit different.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Rudolphin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:25 pm

Preezy wrote:Twitter shouldn't have to defend their decision, just as Apple and Youtube shouldn't have to defend theirs. They're all private corporations that are free to deny/allow whoever they like on their platform.



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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Aug 08, 2018 1:29 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:
Preezy wrote:Twitter shouldn't have to defend their decision, just as Apple and Youtube shouldn't have to defend theirs. They're all private corporations that are free to deny/allow whoever they like on their platform.




I think Preezy is right here. Twitter has the right to allow or disallow whatever it likes (within the law).

We have the right to think Twitter and/or its CEO are acting like banana splits and have the right to say that they should remove people like Jones, but they don’t have to listen to us. I guess they don’t want to risk setting a precedent that will end up with them having to ban the President. ;)

Twitter is a bizarre place. There are so many good and interesting people on there but just as many, if not more, utter scumbags.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Rudolphin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:16 pm

I know you're both right, that Dorsey can allow or not allow anyone he likes, but he's contradicting his own reasoning each time he decides not to boot them off by citing "they didn't break our rules." In Trump's case they literally changed their own conduct rules so he was allowed to keep tweeting!

Twitter IS a weird place, but its a place that has been systematically been taken advantage of by the worst ideologies in society. Jack knows this, has had this pointed out to him a million strawberry floating times, and does not care.

So he's technically correct (sort of) but morally reprehensible.


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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:23 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:So he's technically correct (sort of) but morally reprehensible.


That.

Twitter can choose who it lets on, it doesn't stop them being arseholes for doing it.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Karl » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:33 pm

It's all well and good saying "if we ignore the crackpots and fascists they won't get any attention and then they'll go away", but the last decade of political discourse would seem to empirically contradict that. If we can convince social media and networking apps/websites to pull crackpot &/ fascist content then that might generate a little bit of publicity for the pulled content short term, but long term it will mean fewer people will be exposed to that kind of propaganda via those platforms and that has to be a good thing.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:45 pm

Karl wrote:It's all well and good saying "if we ignore the crackpots and fascists they won't get any attention and then they'll go away", but the last decade of political discourse would seem to empirically contradict that. If we can convince social media and networking apps/websites to pull crackpot &/ fascist content then that might generate a little bit of publicity for the pulled content short term, but long term it will mean fewer people will be exposed to that kind of propaganda via those platforms and that has to be a good thing.


I don’t know if that is aimed at me, but that is certainly not my position. If I owned or was in charge of Twitter then twats like Alex Jones would have been gone a long long time ago.

People like Alex Jones should be reported and complained about until sites like Twitter finally act against him. But it is for Twitter to decide (again as long as it is within the law) what they do and do not allow people to post. However much I might personally hate it.

Hopefully Twitter does come to it’s senses and gets rid of all the far right loons. But I don’t think they will while Trump is President, they would end up losing their best customer.

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PostRe: US Politics - Trump campaign official Rick Gates admits to involvement in criminal activity with Paul Manafort
by Karl » Wed Aug 08, 2018 2:46 pm

Moggy wrote:I don’t know if that is aimed at me, but that is certainly not my position.

Nah, it was mostly aimed at Red Dog. But I didn't want to name names in the fear that it would appear too combative. ;) (No offence intended to Red Dog but I think he is pretty wrong about this issue.)

Moggy wrote:If I owned or was in charge of Twitter then twats like Alex Jones would have been gone a long long time ago.

People like Alex Jones should be reported and complained about until sites like Twitter finally act against him. But it is for Twitter to decide (again as long as it is within the law) what they do and do not allow people to post. However much I might personally hate it.

Hopefully Twitter does come to it’s senses and gets rid of all the far right loons. But I don’t think they will while Trump is President, they would end up losing their best customer.

Agreed.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Rudolphin » Wed Aug 08, 2018 3:48 pm

Hexx wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:Saw a thread from a fundraiser on this yesterday: it's likely all lies to increase their funding. No doubt they've taken a few hits but they're nowhere near insolvency.


I'd hate this to be true, but I can see it as plausible :(


Turns out....it was!


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