US Politics

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Tafdolphin
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PostRe: US Politics
by Tafdolphin » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:32 pm

Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

Where the strawberry float are you going with this KK?

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: US Politics
by Alvin Flummux » Thu Sep 13, 2018 5:44 pm

No taxation without representation!

Free Puerto Rico!

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PostRe: US Politics
by Hexx » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:14 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

Where the strawberry float are you going with this KK?


He seems to be responding to a attempts to marginalised, delegitimise and lessen a minority group by right wing commentors by using language that marginalises and delegitimises said group...

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PostRe: US Politics
by KK » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:43 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Puerto Ricans are American citizens.

Not arguing otherwise, because they are legally as such. But you’ve all missed the point and probably not even read the article I linked to either.

If you seriously think they’re treated as genuine equal American citizens in any shape or form then I think you’re deluded. US government after US government has treated them anything but US citizens and continues to do so.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Hexx » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:53 pm

You’re right that’s absolutely a good reason for you to use language to marginalise and delegitimise them.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics
by Moggy » Thu Sep 13, 2018 6:59 pm

KK wrote:Not arguing otherwise, because they are legally as such. But you’ve all missed the point and probably not even read the article I linked to either.


No, you missed the point. This is how the discussion started.

Moggy wrote:3000 US citizens die and the odious orange one just calls it fake news.

Wanker.


KK wrote:Semantically US citizens. They may as well have been from Belarus.


Puerto Rican’s are not “semantically” US citizens. They ARE US citizens, how they are treated doesn’t change that.

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PostRe: US Politics
by KK » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:21 pm

Well if you want to worry more about my language rather than what has been happening to them since 1898 then good luck to you.

Sky News went over there and asked Puerto Ricans if they felt like American citizens and their response was hell no. They can see it, they can feel it. There's a difference between legality and mentality, and the mentality is completely different from the reality of the situation that has been going on for decades. US citizenship has meant nothing to the majority of these people because successive US governments have not treated them as such.

They are legally 100% US citizens, but ideologically that couldn't be further from the truth. Both in terms of how they feel, and how the US government treats them. Semantically US citizens - i.e it doesn't actually mean anything. They may as well have been from Belarus - i.e. the reaction from the US government would have been only slightly less interested.

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Moggy
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PostRe: US Politics
by Moggy » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:24 pm

Your completely ignoring my point.

My point is that they are US citizens and should therefore be treated as such.

Your point is that they are only semantically so because people treat them badly.

If people keep saying they are only semantically US citizens, then it’s no wonder people start believing it.

They are US citizens. No ifs or buts.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: US Politics
by Oblomov Boblomov » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:38 pm

Trump somehow finds ways to sink to entirely new levels. Those tweets are utterly atrocious.

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PostRe: US Politics
by KK » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:38 pm

But you can't mollycoddle what the reality is. Yes, they're officially US citizens. But that falls apart when the mentality and ideology is so different to that reality; the embodiment of that citizenship ceasing to exist for decades and decades. It becomes this meaningless...thing, because everyone can or should be able to see what the reality of the situation is. It then becomes a fallacy.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Moggy » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:42 pm

Ok KK.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Corazon de Leon » Thu Sep 13, 2018 7:46 pm

I see where you're coming from KK, but I think you and Moggy are arguing different points. Semantically or not, Puerto Ricans are American citizens in the same way that Hawaiians or Alaskans are. Whether or not they're treated as such is a different argument, but they *should* have all the rights and access that anyone in the lower 48 has.

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PostRe: US Politics
by KK » Thu Sep 13, 2018 8:27 pm

Absolutely they should. I’m not arguing the legality of it or what the US government needs to be doing.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Garth » Thu Sep 13, 2018 10:59 pm

twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1040355681663111168


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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: US Politics
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:06 am

Mueller wanted Manafort in prison, so if he's doing a deal now, Manafort must've figured he could get out of all this better by helping Mueller than by relying on Trump's pardon.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Peter Crisp » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:40 am

I await the total meltdown that will happen at Fox News if Trump get's indicted and forced out of office.

The insanity will be fun to watch and their delusion will be never ending.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Sep 14, 2018 2:48 am

They'll probably hail Pence as their new overlord and quietly forget Trump altogether after Pence pardons him.

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Memento Mori
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PostRe: US Politics
by Memento Mori » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:03 pm

Garth wrote:

twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1040355681663111168


How much can they really offer him? The time for plea deals was before you're found guilty seven times in another trial.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: US Politics
by captain red dog » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:08 pm

Memento Mori wrote:
Garth wrote:

twitter.com/ABCPolitics/status/1040355681663111168


How much can they really offer him? The time for plea deals was before you're found guilty seven times in another trial.

I'm guessing freedom is worth a heck of a lot and it's probably best to have something from Mueller than rely on Trump's word.

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PostRe: US Politics
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:08 pm

Isn't his next trial a state level affair, rather than federal? Trump's pardoning power wouldn't be able to help him out of that one.


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