US Politics

KK wrote:This either works both ways or not at all. It was a few years ago a Christian couple in the UK refused to serve customers who wanted a cake because they were gay. Now this restaurant in the US has refused to serve Trump's administration because it also conflicts with their views.

But it's a completely false equivalency.

You can't (and shouldn't) discriminate against people due to sex, race, sexuality etc. (I.e. something they are)

You should/can be able to decline to serve people who make life choices like being racist. Or religious.

That's right. Being racist and being religious are the same thing....they're both choices

KK wrote:This either works both ways or not at all. It was a few years ago a Christian couple in the UK refused to serve customers who wanted a cake because they were gay. Now this restaurant in the US has refused to serve Trump's administration because it also conflicts with their views.

Come on KK, you're better than this.

Hexx wrote:

KK wrote:This either works both ways or not at all. It was a few years ago a Christian couple in the UK refused to serve customers who wanted a cake because they were gay. Now this restaurant in the US has refused to serve Trump's administration because it also conflicts with their views.

But it's a completely false equivalency.

You can't (and shouldn't) discriminate against people due to sex, race, sexuality etc. (I.e. something they are)

You should/can be able to decline to serve people who make life choices like being racist. Or religious.

That's right. Being racist and being religious are the same thing....they're both choices

This.

The idea that refusing service to somebody for being gay is in any way similar to refusing to serve Trump’s mouthpiece.

The gay cake thing happened here in NI, and while I'm not sure about the rest of the UK or US discrimination laws, in NI it's also illegal to refuse to serve people because of their religious or political views.

Shops shouldn't be getting involved full stop. I don't care what your views are, I want your money. It's as simple as that.

Garth wrote:NI it's also illegal to refuse to serve people because of their religious or political views.

Garth wrote:The gay cake thing happened here in NI, and while I'm not sure about the rest of the UK or US discrimination laws, in NI it's also illegal to refuse to serve people because of their religious or political views.

The gay cake thing has happened in America as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/law/2018/ju ... ion-latest

The Supreme Court ruled in favour of the bigot bakers.

KK wrote:Shops shouldn't be getting involved full stop. I don't care what your views are, I want your money. It's as simple as that.

strawberry float off is it.

You are not every shop, you don’t get to tell other business owners how their business should or shouldn’t operate.

Should a Jewish owned shop have to sell goods to people dressed in SS uniform? Should a gay owned shop have to sell to people wearing “Fags should die” t-shirts?

The law should protect people for characteristics that are beyond their control. Race, sexuality and disability for instance. People are free to tell Nazis and Nazi enablers to strawberry float off though.

Moggy wrote:The Supreme Court ruled in favour of the bigot bakers.

That's not technically what happened (as I think you mean it) - they basically ruled on a very very narrow basis that the "handling" of the case was against the first amendment rights of the bakers - because language/tone was hostile to bakers religious beliefs.

They backed away from ruling on "Religious belief superceed gay rights" saying the topic needed further discussion.

Should a Jewish owned shop have to sell goods to people dressed in SS uniform? Should a gay owned shop have to sell to people wearing “Fags should die” t-shirts?

No, because that's illegal and you're being ridiculous.

KK wrote:

Should a Jewish owned shop have to sell goods to people dressed in SS uniform? Should a gay owned shop have to sell to people wearing “Fags should die” t-shirts?

No, because that's illegal and you're being ridiculous.

There are no laws in America to stop people wearing SS uniforms or t-shirts that say “Fags should die”. So it is not illegal.

What’s ridiculous is creating a false equivalency between bigotry against gay people and Trump’s mouthpiece not getting served in a restaurant.

Moggy wrote:

KK wrote:

Should a Jewish owned shop have to sell goods to people dressed in SS uniform? Should a gay owned shop have to sell to people wearing “Fags should die” t-shirts?

No, because that's illegal and you're being ridiculous.

There are no laws in America to stop people wearing SS uniforms or t-shirts that say “Fags should die”. So it is not illegal.

What’s ridiculous is creating a false equivalency between bigotry against gay people and Trump’s mouthpiece not getting served in a restaurant.

There are laws against it, in the UK.

lex-man wrote:

Moggy wrote:

KK wrote:

Should a Jewish owned shop have to sell goods to people dressed in SS uniform? Should a gay owned shop have to sell to people wearing “Fags should die” t-shirts?

No, because that's illegal and you're being ridiculous.

There are no laws in America to stop people wearing SS uniforms or t-shirts that say “Fags should die”. So it is not illegal.

What’s ridiculous is creating a false equivalency between bigotry against gay people and Trump’s mouthpiece not getting served in a restaurant.

There are laws against it, in the UK.

There are.

But this is the US politics thread.

Moggy wrote:What’s ridiculous is creating a false equivalency between bigotry against gay people and Trump’s mouthpiece not getting served in a restaurant.

It isn't, because both are using their beliefs to get in the way of what they should be doing and that is serving their customers, whoever they may be within the confines of respective laws. If someone who hates Obama, Trump or gays wants to buy a cake in my shop it's not up to the shop or restaurant to tell me whether my views line up with the CEO or the staff on the shop floor, nor is it the shop's job to lecture me on my own views and what is supposed to be right or wrong.

KK wrote:

Moggy wrote:What’s ridiculous is creating a false equivalency between bigotry against gay people and Trump’s mouthpiece not getting served in a restaurant.

It isn't, because both are using their beliefs to get in the way of what they should be doing and that is serving their customers, whoever they may be within the confines of respective laws. If someone who hates Obama, Trump or gays wants to buy a cake in my shop it's not up to the shop or restaurant to tell me whether my views line up with the CEO or the staff on the shop floor, nor is it the shop's job to lecture me on my own views and what is supposed to be right or wrong.

You can remove someone from a shop for being rude or obnoxious, I don't honestly see how this is different.

Imagine walking up to a customer and asking them:

Who do you support?
Obama
Well get out of my restaurant

I would like a pepperoni pizza?
Have you had an abortion?
Yes, why?
Well I'm sorry you're going to have to leave, the CEO of Domino's is anti abortion

It's ludicrous. You start projecting your own views onto a brand and lose the ability to look at things as an impartial, non-politicised business and you end up going down a path where nobody benefits.

KK wrote:

Moggy wrote:What’s ridiculous is creating a false equivalency between bigotry against gay people and Trump’s mouthpiece not getting served in a restaurant.

It isn't, because both are using their beliefs to get in the way of what they should be doing and that is serving their customers, whoever they may be within the confines of respective laws. If someone who hates Obama, Trump or gays wants to buy a cake in my shop it's not up to the shop or restaurant to tell me whether my views line up with the CEO or the staff on the shop floor, nor is it the shop's job to lecture me on my own views and what is supposed to be right or wrong.

We are not talking about shops that refuse to serve cakes to homophobes, we are talking about homophobic shops that refuse to serve cakes to gay people. There’s a big difference there.

Shops have the right to refuse to serve customers for their political views (other than in Northern Ireland ). Shops don’t have the right to refuse to serve people based on their race or sexual orientation (other than possibly in the USA if the SC ever rules on it).

I see very little difference in refusing service to Sanders, Jew haters or gay haters. That’s not ridiculous, all of that is based on political beliefs.

I see a massive difference between the above and refusing service to gay people. That’s not ridiculous, being gay is not a choice.

Your argument is that things should be equal and that being refused service for being gay is the same thing as being refused service because you work for a far right politician. That’s ridiculous.

I think a shop owner should have the right to refuse service to anyone they like. It's their shop, and if they run it badly then people can take their business elsewhere.

OrangeRakoon wrote:I think a shop owner should have the right to refuse service to anyone they like. It's their shop, and if they run it badly then people can take their business elsewhere.

OrangeRakoon wrote:I think a bus driver should have the right to refuse to let certain people sit down. It's their bus, and if they run it badly then people can travel via another form of transport.