US Politics 3

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Squinty
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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Squinty » Mon Mar 11, 2024 4:33 pm

Orban just confirmed how Trump will end the war in Ukraine then.

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Memento Mori
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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Memento Mori » Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:53 pm

Grumpy David wrote:Long twitter thread, I think the most interesting part is not that it's occurring but that it's occurring under Trump rather than any other Republican candidate:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198788689465639



Edit: missed out a word.

I would think this is more likely to be evidence that political polling is currently broken in America.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Grumpy David » Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:06 pm

Memento Mori wrote:
Grumpy David wrote:Long twitter thread, I think the most interesting part is not that it's occurring but that it's occurring under Trump rather than any other Republican candidate:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198788689465639



Edit: missed out a word.

I would think this is more likely to be evidence that political polling is currently broken in America.


This point is raised in the twitter thread:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198796226646485



twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198803352842631



The other interesting shift is that the Democrats are doing better amongst the wealthier voters and the Republicans are doing better amongst the poorer voters, that's been a fairly well known shift. The "older you get the more likely you are to vote Republican" pattern is actually the opposite with black voters which is unexpected:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198814811635731


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Memento Mori
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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Memento Mori » Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:11 am

If the cause of the polling errors is people not answering unknown phone numbers (which is how they do these polls) it's not surprising it's been going on a few years. This "historical realignment" isn't reflected by actual elections.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Tomous » Tue Mar 12, 2024 9:25 am

Memento Mori wrote:If the cause of the polling errors is people not answering unknown phone numbers (which is how they do these polls) it's not surprising it's been going on a few years. This "historical realignment" isn't reflected by actual elections.

According to this pollsters have recognised this issue and been moving away from phone polling since 2016

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Herdanos » Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:37 am

Tomous wrote:
Memento Mori wrote:If the cause of the polling errors is people not answering unknown phone numbers (which is how they do these polls) it's not surprising it's been going on a few years. This "historical realignment" isn't reflected by actual elections.

According to this pollsters have recognised this issue and been moving away from phone polling since 2016

But which pollsters did they poll for this poll?

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Moggy » Wed Mar 13, 2024 11:39 am

Herdanos wrote:
Tomous wrote:
Memento Mori wrote:If the cause of the polling errors is people not answering unknown phone numbers (which is how they do these polls) it's not surprising it's been going on a few years. This "historical realignment" isn't reflected by actual elections.

According to this pollsters have recognised this issue and been moving away from phone polling since 2016

But which pollsters did they poll for this poll?


Some pollsters compiled a poll of pollsters polls and then they picked the top 3 pollsters to poll on how pollsters run their polls.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by RetroCora » Wed Mar 13, 2024 2:37 pm

Grumpy David wrote:
Memento Mori wrote:
Grumpy David wrote:Long twitter thread, I think the most interesting part is not that it's occurring but that it's occurring under Trump rather than any other Republican candidate:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198788689465639



Edit: missed out a word.

I would think this is more likely to be evidence that political polling is currently broken in America.


This point is raised in the twitter thread:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198796226646485



twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198803352842631



The other interesting shift is that the Democrats are doing better amongst the wealthier voters and the Republicans are doing better amongst the poorer voters, that's been a fairly well known shift. The "older you get the more likely you are to vote Republican" pattern is actually the opposite with black voters which is unexpected:

twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1767198814811635731



The problem I have with this thread is that it doesn't take into account regional variance. It's well known that Black and Latinx voters tend to skew more conservative generally so this change has been a long time coming, but there's still a large regional variance to how these people tend to vote. Same as there is with white voters - it's not generally helpful to class voters by race at this point because that variance is starting to become more important. Other factors are at play here.

For example, the border communities in Texas are largely Latinx, and they tend to favour immigration as their key election issue. They also tend to favour Trump because of his strong anti-immigration stance, but ultimately it doesn't actually matter that much how they vote because Texas is not a swing state. It will vote Republican on November 5th, whether the Latinx voters go red or blue. Likewise Florida is no longer a swing state, so the Cuban American population of Miami isn't going to make a difference to the election outright when they vote red, and the largely Democrat-voting Puerto Ricans of New York City won't tip the election if they go blue.

The other thing to note is that there is a lot of angst about poll data at the moment, but Biden has done almost no campaigning yet, he hasn't really been out on the campaign trail before the last week or two, and all the scrutiny has been on him rather than Trump. That will change once campaigning begins in earnest, and the Biden administration begins to zero in on some of Trump's more out-there promises.

What this information does bring across well, is that there are one or two surprises in the data that the Democrats need to start tracking and working on. The main one is young, Black, inner-city men. This is where a lot of the statistical change in that area is coming from, as there has been a massive drop off against the Democrats and specifically Biden in that particular category. A few different reasons could be offered to explain this - the continued deprivation of the inner-city under Biden, the failure of the student loan relief legislation which has been (slightly unfairly) blamed on Biden.

The thread author here suspects that fading memories of Civil Rights is important as well, and I guess it might be a small factor but the economy is king in an election year. For me, the administration needs to have a strong economic plan for his second term, which focuses on Democratic heartland areas - the Blue Wall, the Rust Belt, and the big cities. This is a turnout election, and he needs to focus on making sure people turn out. What I think you'll see is a campaign that focuses jointly on painting Trump as unstable while pushing Biden as a solid economic choice for the future, ramming home that he's one of the most prolific Presidents since Johnson at getting legislation over the line (I think, don't quote me on this as I haven't had time to double check the stat).

I also don't think it's overly surprising that the realignment has continued to gather pace with Trump's Republicans. For me, the key marker for polls is college education - Trump has continued to have a massive lead with non-college-educated Americans and there are reasons for this. He sloganises, he uses dirty tricks and siege-mentality politics that appeal to people on lower incomes, who feel like they've been let down. A cult of personality doesn't let things like facts get in the way of the message, and this is very much being borne out in Trump's support base. There's boatloads of reading on psychological tactics for election support that I could recommend on this front, and Trump is, frighteningly, doing a very good job of following the playbook.

The final thing to remember is that national polling is great, and very interesting, and tells us something about trends more generally. But actually, we already know how the vast majority of states are going to vote. There are 6-8 states that are going to be under significant scrutiny. Nevada, Arizona, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Wisconsin and Georgia are the places to focus your attention - look at their polling. Trump currently holds slight polling leads in all of those states, or did when I last saw the stats a couple of days ago, but they're all very much there to be won by Biden. Expect these numbers to tighten and swing pretty wildly over the next eight months.

This campaign is gonna be long, and it's gonna be horrendous to watch from the outside. Polling tells us a little bit about what's going on for now, but it won't give us a truly accurate dataset until much closer to the final event.

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Oblomov Boblomov
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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Oblomov Boblomov » Wed Mar 13, 2024 3:24 pm

Nothing to add but just wanted to say it is really useful to read this sort of stuff, thanks Cora!

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Herdanos
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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Herdanos » Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:44 pm

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Nothing to add but just wanted to say it is really useful to read this sort of stuff, thanks Cora!

Yeah I agree with this, nice one.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Moggy » Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:50 pm

Herdanos wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:Nothing to add but just wanted to say it is really useful to read this sort of stuff, thanks Cora!

Yeah I agree with this, nice one.


Poll results:

78% of respondents think Cora did well.

21% of respondents think Cora did ok.

1% of respondents think mushrooms are only ok on pizza if you are going to a musical.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by RetroCora » Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:53 pm

21% of respondents should strawberry float off then shouldn't they! :slol:

For serious though, I was just saying to GD via PM - a good chunk of my PhD was analysing historic presidential poll data so I love this kind of thing. If you ever want to trigger me into a big political post, just post some poll data and tag me in the thread. :lol:

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Moggy » Wed Mar 13, 2024 4:58 pm

Updated poll results:

Poll results:

78% of respondents think Cora did well.

21% of respondents think Cora is a rude rude bastard.

1% of respondents think mushrooms are only ok on pizza if you are going to a musical.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by RetroCora » Wed Mar 13, 2024 5:04 pm

:lol:

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Drumstick » Wed Mar 13, 2024 10:20 pm

Have you ever, y'know, considered like, trying to get a job in this field?

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by RetroCora » Thu Mar 14, 2024 3:42 pm

Drumstick wrote:Have you ever, y'know, considered like, trying to get a job in this field?


Ha, kind of a trigger point. I was knocked back for interview at the University of Stirling last week for a politics job and told that 158 people applied for the role. Such is the industry at the moment. :lol:

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Monkey Man » Fri Mar 15, 2024 2:32 pm

twitter.com/keithboykin/status/1768626585119174779


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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Monkey Man » Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:24 pm

Trump unable to get $464m bond in New York fraud case, his lawyers say

Donald Trump's lawyers have said finding a bond to cover the $464m (£365m) judgement in his New York fraud case is a "practical impossibility".

A judge ordered Mr Trump to pay the penalty in February for falsely inflating the value of his assets.

Mr Trump offered to post a smaller bond of $100m while he appeals, but that request was denied.

In a filing on Monday, his lawyers said they had approached 30 companies to back the bond without success.

"The amount of the judgement, with interest, exceeds $464m, and very few bonding companies will consider a bond of anything approaching that magnitude," his lawyers wrote in the nearly 5,000-page filing.

They are asking a judge to put the judgement on pause while Mr Trump appeals against the decision.

"The practical impossibility of obtaining a bond interferes with defendants' right to appeal," his lawyers said.

Mr Trump's two eldest sons also must pay millions of dollars in the case.

Along with ordering Mr Trump to pay the penalty, New York Judge Arthur Engoron banned him from running any businesses in the state for three years after he found the former president falsely inflated assets to secure better loan deals.

A judge paused Mr Trump's business ban last month, but denied his bid to provide a smaller bond amount to cover the fine.

In the latest filing, the former president's lawyers included an affidavit from a president of a private insurance firm, who said that "simply put, a bond of this size is rarely, if ever, seen".

"In the unusual circumstance that a bond of this size is issued, it is provided to the largest public companies in the world, not to individuals or privately held businesses," the lawyers also said.

Mr Trump's team added that they had spent "countless hours negotiating with one of the largest insurance companies in the world" with no success.

They also said bond companies would not accept "hard assets such as real estate as collateral" for the bond, but only cash or "cash equivalents", such as investments that can be quickly liquidated.

According to a Forbes estimate, Mr Trump is worth about $2.6bn. He also testified last year that he had $400m in liquid assets.

But the $464m judgement is not his only expense. He was ordered to pay $83m in January after losing a defamation case to E Jean Carroll, a woman he was found to have sexually abused. He has already posted a bond in that case.

New York's attorney general has vowed to seize his assets if he does not pay the fraud penalty.

The penalty will keep accruing interest by at least $112,000 per day until he pays.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-68600093

The deadline to pay is currently next Monday. His Stormy Daniels criminal trial starts in about a month - https://apnews.com/article/trump-hush-m ... 2381189df8

Last edited by Monkey Man on Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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RetroCora
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PostRe: US Politics 3
by RetroCora » Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:34 pm

It'll be very interesting to see how and if this judgement affects his ability to raise campaign funds. It also remains to be seen which assets the state of New York is able to seize - I'm not sure what right they would have over, say, Mar-a-Lago, given that he owns it in a different State. State and Federal abilities are slightly different in terms of what they can take, but that's outside of my expertise sadly.

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PostRe: US Politics 3
by Moggy » Mon Mar 18, 2024 5:51 pm

I hope they seize Trump Tower. :lol:


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