Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?

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Is property theft or is tax theft?

Property is theft
10
22%
Tax is theft
5
11%
Neither
15
33%
Both
0
No votes
Don't know
0
No votes
What the hell are you playing at
15
33%
 
Total votes: 45
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PostWesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Lex-Man » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:28 pm

After the large discussion in the politics thread I've decided to break the topic out into it's own thread so it can sink like a stone.

Last edited by Lex-Man on Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Moggy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:29 pm

The thread title :lol:

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by That » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:29 pm

Please add a poll so we as a forum can decide once and for all whether tax or property is theft.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Moggy » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:37 pm

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by OrangeRKN » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:41 pm

Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Lagamorph » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:44 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?

Was he wearing sunglasses at the time?

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Regginator3 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Why isn't there a poll?

Tax is definitely more theft than property is. I honestly cannot understand how people can consider property theft.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Kezzer » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:46 pm

Is this the forum game?

This post is exempt from the No Context Thread.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Skarjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:48 pm

Are you a Marxist?

(By the way I went out to a bar and now there's like five extra pages to the topic so I'll respond tomorrow when you're all asleep coz that means I win).

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Ironhide » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:49 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?


That's an odd way to describe the tax system but it's fairly accurate.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Skarjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:56 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?


Alice, of course, recognises that the roads she takes are built and maintained by Wesley Snipes, and that Wesley Snipes hires, like Sandra Bullock AND Keanu Reeves to make sure that if Dennis Hopper tries to take her berries that Alice can, free of charge, be protected and put Hopper in jail. And also if Alice's bag catches fire then Kurt Russel will put out the fire for free, and if Alice has kids then she can send her kids (still free) to Danny Devitos Berry Identification School and all that Wesley Snipes wants is some help towards covering costs.

And Alice is like, 'Nah, imma use all those things anyway, then I'm gonna tell you you're an immoral thief. Oh also, I heard that Angelina Jolie might invade so you better protect me, but also you're still immoral. Also if I get mugged by the guy who played the IT guy in Jurassic Park I'll wonder why you didn't protect me. Still immoral though"

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by OrangeRKN » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:58 pm

Netflix originals have gone too far this time

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Regginator3 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 4:59 pm

Skarjo wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?


Alice, of course, recognises that the roads she takes are built and maintained by Wesley Snipes, and that Wesley Snipes hires, like Sandra Bullock AND Keanu Reeves to make sure that if Dennis Hopper tries to take her berries that Alice can, free of charge, be protected and put Hopper in jail. And also if Alice's bag catches fire then Kurt Russel will put out the fire for free, and if Alice has kids then she can send her kids (still free) to Danny Devitos Berry Identification School and all that Wesley Snipes wants is some help towards covering costs.

And Alice is like, 'Nah, imma use all those things anyway, then I'm gonna tell you you're an immoral thief. Oh also, I heard that Angelina Jolie might invade so you better protect me, but also you're still immoral. Also if I get mugged by the guy who played the IT guy in Jurassic Park I'll wonder why you didn't protect me. Still immoral though"


Wesley Snipes, on the other hand, recognises that he has set up this system without Alice's consent - he has given her no choice regarding this system. Alice gets a vote, every 5 years, to determine who runs the system, but she is never given a vote regarding the system itself. Alice also has the potential to collaborate with some of her friends on a consensual basis and build the roads, and protect each other, however this is outlawed by Wesley Snipes.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Skarjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:02 pm

Regginator3 wrote:
Skarjo wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?


Alice, of course, recognises that the roads she takes are built and maintained by Wesley Snipes, and that Wesley Snipes hires, like Sandra Bullock AND Keanu Reeves to make sure that if Dennis Hopper tries to take her berries that Alice can, free of charge, be protected and put Hopper in jail. And also if Alice's bag catches fire then Kurt Russel will put out the fire for free, and if Alice has kids then she can send her kids (still free) to Danny Devitos Berry Identification School and all that Wesley Snipes wants is some help towards covering costs.

And Alice is like, 'Nah, imma use all those things anyway, then I'm gonna tell you you're an immoral thief. Oh also, I heard that Angelina Jolie might invade so you better protect me, but also you're still immoral. Also if I get mugged by the guy who played the IT guy in Jurassic Park I'll wonder why you didn't protect me. Still immoral though"


Wesley Snipes, on the other hand, recognises that he has set up this system without Alice's consent - he has given her no choice regarding this system. Alice gets a vote, every 5 years, to determine who runs the system, but she is never given a vote regarding the system itself. Alice also has the potential to collaborate with some of her friends on a consensual basis and build the roads, and protect each other.


Alice, presumably, was born on Wesley Snipes' dime, went through schooling on Snipes' dime, and has never been unaware that using Snipes' forest trails has an admission fee. She has been raised for 16 years at least with Snipes footing the bill for all her medical and educational needs, while she enjoys full protection of all the public services we use everyday.

But now she's being asked to pay she's all 'but I never consented! I never consented!' despite having reaped the benefits for nearly two decades and being fully aware that Snipes' wanted his dues if and when she ever DARED use that same system to make money for herself.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Lagamorph » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:04 pm

In contract law, using a system and being allowed to use that system over a prolonged period will enter you into a deemed contract as you are deemed to have consented to entering I to that system by your prolonged use if the system.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Regginator3 » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:06 pm

Skarjo wrote:
Regginator3 wrote:
Skarjo wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?


Alice, of course, recognises that the roads she takes are built and maintained by Wesley Snipes, and that Wesley Snipes hires, like Sandra Bullock AND Keanu Reeves to make sure that if Dennis Hopper tries to take her berries that Alice can, free of charge, be protected and put Hopper in jail. And also if Alice's bag catches fire then Kurt Russel will put out the fire for free, and if Alice has kids then she can send her kids (still free) to Danny Devitos Berry Identification School and all that Wesley Snipes wants is some help towards covering costs.

And Alice is like, 'Nah, imma use all those things anyway, then I'm gonna tell you you're an immoral thief. Oh also, I heard that Angelina Jolie might invade so you better protect me, but also you're still immoral. Also if I get mugged by the guy who played the IT guy in Jurassic Park I'll wonder why you didn't protect me. Still immoral though"


Wesley Snipes, on the other hand, recognises that he has set up this system without Alice's consent - he has given her no choice regarding this system. Alice gets a vote, every 5 years, to determine who runs the system, but she is never given a vote regarding the system itself. Alice also has the potential to collaborate with some of her friends on a consensual basis and build the roads, and protect each other.


Alice, presumably, was born on Wesley Snipes' dime, went through schooling on Snipes' dime, and has never been unaware that using Snipes' forest trails has an admission fee. She has been raised for 16 years at least with Snipes footing the bill for all her medical and educational needs, while she enjoys full protection of all the public services we use everyday.

But now she's being asked to pay she's all 'but I never consented! I never consented!' despite having reaped the benefits for nearly two decades and being fully aware that Snipes' wanted his dues if and when she ever DARED use that same system to make money for herself.

And because of this, Wesley Snipes insists Alice should never have a chance for her to be part of an independent system, that she wants, because she must feel in debt to Wesley Snipes for all he has done for her - whether or not she even wanted his help - for the sake of having her indebted to him. Of course, if you benefit from something, you must be indebted to it forever, whether you wanted it or not.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Skarjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Regginator3 wrote:
Skarjo wrote:
Regginator3 wrote:
Skarjo wrote:
OrangeRakoon wrote:Alice lives alone in a forest, collecting and eating berries to survive, where the only thing she has to worry about are dangerous wolves.

One day a big, burly man called Wesley Snipes starts following Alice around. Every time a wolf gets near to Alice, Wesley Snipes chases it off. Alice asks Wesley Snipes to go away, but he doesn't listen. He just keeps following her around, chasing off wolves.

At the end of the day, when Alice is counting up the berries she collected, Wesley Snipes demands Alice gives him half of them, as payment for chasing off the wolves. Alice refuses, but Wesley Snipes threatens to beat her up if she doesn't pay.

Is this behaviour by Wesley Snipes morally okay?


Alice, of course, recognises that the roads she takes are built and maintained by Wesley Snipes, and that Wesley Snipes hires, like Sandra Bullock AND Keanu Reeves to make sure that if Dennis Hopper tries to take her berries that Alice can, free of charge, be protected and put Hopper in jail. And also if Alice's bag catches fire then Kurt Russel will put out the fire for free, and if Alice has kids then she can send her kids (still free) to Danny Devitos Berry Identification School and all that Wesley Snipes wants is some help towards covering costs.

And Alice is like, 'Nah, imma use all those things anyway, then I'm gonna tell you you're an immoral thief. Oh also, I heard that Angelina Jolie might invade so you better protect me, but also you're still immoral. Also if I get mugged by the guy who played the IT guy in Jurassic Park I'll wonder why you didn't protect me. Still immoral though"


Wesley Snipes, on the other hand, recognises that he has set up this system without Alice's consent - he has given her no choice regarding this system. Alice gets a vote, every 5 years, to determine who runs the system, but she is never given a vote regarding the system itself. Alice also has the potential to collaborate with some of her friends on a consensual basis and build the roads, and protect each other.


Alice, presumably, was born on Wesley Snipes' dime, went through schooling on Snipes' dime, and has never been unaware that using Snipes' forest trails has an admission fee. She has been raised for 16 years at least with Snipes footing the bill for all her medical and educational needs, while she enjoys full protection of all the public services we use everyday.

But now she's being asked to pay she's all 'but I never consented! I never consented!' despite having reaped the benefits for nearly two decades and being fully aware that Snipes' wanted his dues if and when she ever DARED use that same system to make money for herself.

And because of this, Wesley Snipes insists Alice should never have a chance for her to be part of an independent system, that she wants, because she must feel in debt to Wesley Snipes for all he has done for her, for the sake of having her indebted to him. Of course, if you benefit from something, you must be indebted to it forever.


Snipes is fine with you not wanting part of his forest.

Hell, if you want to find another forest, he won't even back charge you for the two decades you used his forest without contributing a damn thing.

But you can't use his forest anymore.

Find another forest.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by OrangeRKN » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Just to copy-paste the second half of my Wesley Snipes (Bob) post so its clear the point I was making:

Is this behaviour by Bob morally okay?

What difference is there between Bob and the state?

Further imagine that Bob is actually a really nice guy, and Alice appreciates how he chases off the wolves. In fact, given a choice, Alice would happily pay Bob to keep her safe.

The point of moral contention however is that Alice has not given that consent. The decision has been forced upon her.

When I attribute a moral value to taxation, what I'm saying is I think its wrong to enforce something through threats of violence rather than by seeking consent, even if it is something that I agree with.

When I say that taxation amounts to theft, I do not mean to argue legal definitions, and perhaps it would be better if I said "taking something from someone without consent" rather than "theft". That's the point I am trying to get across.

I am not arguing that taxation should be abolished or changed, as I previously stated that I also think /not/ paying taxes is morally wrong and practically society has a choice between the two.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Lagamorph » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:08 pm

Alice can strawberry float off and form her own country then and see how well it goes.

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PostRe: Wesley Snipes Presents: Is tax theft or is all property theft?
by Skarjo » Fri Feb 16, 2018 5:10 pm

OrangeRakoon wrote:Just to copy-paste the second half of my Wesley Snipes (Bob) post so its clear the point I was making:

Is this behaviour by Bob morally okay?

What difference is there between Bob and the state?

Further imagine that Bob is actually a really nice guy, and Alice appreciates how he chases off the wolves. In fact, given a choice, Alice would happily pay Bob to keep her safe.

The point of moral contention however is that Alice has not given that consent. The decision has been forced upon her.

When I attribute a moral value to taxation, what I'm saying is I think its wrong to enforce something through threats of violence rather than by seeking consent, even if it is something that I agree with.

When I say that taxation amounts to theft, I do not mean to argue legal definitions, and perhaps it would be better if I said "taking something from someone without consent" rather than "theft". That's the point I am trying to get across.

I am not arguing that taxation should be abolished or changed, as I previously stated that I also think /not/ paying taxes is morally wrong and practically society has a choice between the two.


Pay your upkeep or find another forest.

Stop pretending that having to contribute towards keeping the forest going is some immoral form of theft.

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