Where next for racing games?

I've been really enjoying playing Forza Horizon 3 on One X and it's bloody amazing. The graphics are spot on and the gameworld is full of stuff to do and random cars just milling about and it got me wondering where the next leap in the genre will come from.
I really can't see there being a huge step in graphics even if a game was made to only work on a £2,000 PC (the framerate at 4k could be locked at 120fps I suppose but even that wouldn't be a revolution) and other than better physics (which I most likely won't notice as I'm not a pro at these games) and more natural random car interactions I think what we have now is about as good as we'll ever get.

How can a next gen open world racing game make a giant step from here?

VR is probably the next big thing in racing games I'd say.

Lagamorph wrote:VR is probably the next big thing in racing games I'd say.

That's fine but even if VR is perfected some will still prefer to play games on a normal TV.
I also have this odd problem with VR driving games in that I can't drive in real life so getting in a racing car in VR just ends up badly .
I actually used Driveclub to see how my tolerance is for dizziness by using my beloved Morgan without a roof and deliberately driving like a madman while leaning out the car as far as I can and looking at the rear tyres and I'm happy to report I didn't throw-up .
That may well have been my single greatest gaming achievement of all time .

Battle Royale

While that is indeed fantastic how am I going to fit that in my house?

Peter Crisp wrote:While that is indeed fantastic how am I going to fit that in my house?

Virtual reality inception. You access that machine via your VR headset.

Problem solved.

But my VR house is the Star Ship Enterprise NCC-1701-D.

I suppose I could recreate a house on the holodeck and plonk it in that but it seems like a lot of work and what if it goes wrong and the characters come to life and try and kill me?

Are you trying to get me killed by Mario?

While I enjoyed Horizon I'd rather see more official racing games. A dedicated, official Touring Cars game, with a full championship career mode, would be most welcome.

Gemini73 wrote:While I enjoyed Horizon I'd rather see more official racing games. A dedicated, official Touring Cars game, with a full championship career mode, would be most welcome.

Damage models could be improved with more randomness to the carnage and the crowds at Rally events need work although again I think that would be an evolution rather than revolution.

Peter Crisp wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:While I enjoyed Horizon I'd rather see more official racing games. A dedicated, official Touring Cars game, with a full championship career mode, would be most welcome.

Damage models could be improved with more randomness to the carnage and the crowds at Rally events need work although again I think that would be an evolution rather than revolution.

Who says racing games need to go through a revolution any way. While tech will improve at the end of the day racing vehicles against one another is always going to be racing vehicles against one another, it doesn't need to evolve to stay relevant. Having said that I don't agree that graphics won't significantly improve, there's a way to go.

If you want better tech then there are clearly things to be done around recreation of the feeling of driving on different surfaces, deformation of muddy roads on a Rally game for example.

Its been a while since we've had a street racing game that was any good that wasn't open road and Horizon is pretty much the only good example of an open road game like this still in production.

I just want good racing games, no need for gimmicks trying to revolutionise the genre.

Peter Crisp wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:While I enjoyed Horizon I'd rather see more official racing games. A dedicated, official Touring Cars game, with a full championship career mode, would be most welcome.

Damage models could be improved with more randomness to the carnage and the crowds at Rally events need work although again I think that would be an evolution rather than revolution.

Agreed.

I remember one of the WRC titles on PS2 had random events happening during any given race with rock slides, animals running out in front of you, other drivers broken down on the side of the track and so on. It was pretty cool.

Racing in war zones. That way, you could just combine the servers of a racing game and a battlefield game.

Alvin Flummux wrote:Racing in war zones. That way, you could just combine the servers of a racing game and a battlefield game.

A few tracks in Motorstorm Apocalypse were exactly that.

The problem with increasing damage models etc. is that outside niche/unlicensed games like Wreckfest or BeamNG Drive no manufacturer is going to let you totally trash their lovely cars.

Gemini73 wrote:While I enjoyed Horizon I'd rather see more official racing games. A dedicated, official Touring Cars game, with a full championship career mode, would be most welcome.

There are BTCC cars in Forza 6 as well as plenty of mods for rFactor/Race07/Automobilista, but they are niche addons for already niche products. The days of codemasters making official TOCA/BTCC games are well and truly over.

I've been saying this for a while but I firmly believe that racing games are one of the genres that would most benefit from an evolution in controller design with a heavy emphasis on force feedback. There's a big difference between using a racing wheel with a basic set of pedals and using the same wheel and a set of high end pedals with a load cell brake for instance. The rumbling triggers on the Xboxone pad are a step in the right direction but a high end controller (like an Xbox Elite pad but built for racing games not shooters) that incorporated better feedback through the analogue stick, possibly a pressure sensitive disc instead of the stick, and the triggers would find a decent market among people who don't have the space for a full race wheel setup. A load cell trigger is probably an impossible engineering task but something that more closely mimicked the feeling of pushing a brake pedal would be cool.

Grassroots to topflight with everything inbetween. Every discipline and surface. Visual and performance customisation. Tuning capability. Livery designer. Social and multiplayer features. Convincing physics which allow for fun if you dont want punishing autism. Competitive and compelling AI. Smooth 100fps+ with an interesting visual design - realism without sterility. The ability to have a strawberry float about play in a car within 30 seconds of launching the game.

I dont ask for a lot.

The control interfaces already exist for whatever form of input realism and feedback you want. Its a matter of what you want to pay.

Generally racing games are really quite good right now and over a few games you have access to a lot of disciplines, depending what series you like. In my opinion it really doesn't need a revolution, just steady evolution relating to things like physics and AI.

bear wrote:I've been saying this for a while but I firmly believe that racing games are one of the genres that would most benefit from an evolution in controller design with a heavy emphasis on force feedback. There's a big difference between using a racing wheel with a basic set of pedals and using the same wheel and a set of high end pedals with a load cell brake for instance. The rumbling triggers on the Xboxone pad are a step in the right direction but a high end controller (like an Xbox Elite pad but built for racing games not shooters) that incorporated better feedback through the analogue stick, possibly a pressure sensitive disc instead of the stick, and the triggers would find a decent market among people who don't have the space for a full race wheel setup. A load cell trigger is probably an impossible engineering task but something that more closely mimicked the feeling of pushing a brake pedal would be cool.

I like the sound of something like this though, on my PS3 I had a DFGT that saw a lot of use for the F1 series and GT 5/6 and while I wasn't much quicker with the wheel (although I was a little) it made it a lot more fun and engaging and the thing it improved most was consistency. Sadly you can't use the DFGT on the PS4 and with my gaming time nowhere near what it used to be even if I had a wheel I'd probably still use the pad, as I don't have to assemble/disassemble it each time I want to race. A racing orientated pad would be a good compromise to someone like myself, problem is something like this would have to work on the multiple consoles and PC and have support from the developers of said racing games so while it's a good idea in theory it would probably never happen.

After playing F1 2016 yesterday one thing that does need improving, across all racing titles, is AI. Some are better than others, true, but generally it's not great and often feels like playing with a bunch of noobs online who just power into every corner, ramming anyone in front of them thus causing a huge pile up.

Gemini73 wrote:After playing F1 2016 yesterday one thing that does need improving, across all racing titles, is AI. Some are better than others, true, but generally it's not great and often feels like playing with a bunch of noobs online who just power into every corner, ramming anyone in front of them thus causing a huge pile up.

This! Every time I play I have real issues on harder dificulties as it tends to just mean they smash into you more and somehow keep up speed whilst doing it so they puffle you in a corner and speed off like they never touched you.

Errkal wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:After playing F1 2016 yesterday one thing that does need improving, across all racing titles, is AI. Some are better than others, true, but generally it's not great and often feels like playing with a bunch of noobs online who just power into every corner, ramming anyone in front of them thus causing a huge pile up.

This! Every time I play I have real issues on harder dificulties as it tends to just mean they smash into you more and somehow keep up speed whilst doing it so they puffle you in a corner and speed off like they never touched you.

Yep, it's a really strawberry floater sometimes. To quote myself from the Currently Playing thread:

I got spun out by Verstappen and just watched as the AI just bumped and shoved into each other as they tried to push through the Red Bull and each other so as to maintain their 'programming'. Bloody awful.

In the end I had to take of full damage mode because it's practically impossible with it on due to the shitty AI.

It's a real shame because the rest of the game is pretty spot on, and if you manage to avoid the haphazardness of the crappy AI then it can be exhilarating at times.

Gemini73 wrote:

Errkal wrote:

Gemini73 wrote:After playing F1 2016 yesterday one thing that does need improving, across all racing titles, is AI. Some are better than others, true, but generally it's not great and often feels like playing with a bunch of noobs online who just power into every corner, ramming anyone in front of them thus causing a huge pile up.

This! Every time I play I have real issues on harder dificulties as it tends to just mean they smash into you more and somehow keep up speed whilst doing it so they puffle you in a corner and speed off like they never touched you.

Yep, it's a really strawberry floater sometimes. To quote myself from the Currently Playing thread:

I got spun out by Verstappen and just watched as the AI just bumped and shoved into each other as they tried to push through the Red Bull and each other so as to maintain their 'programming'. Bloody awful.

In the end I had to take of full damage mode because it's practically impossible with it on due to the shitty AI.

It's a real shame because the rest of the game is pretty spot on, and if you manage to avoid the haphazardness of the crappy AI then it can be exhilarating at times.

That's always my experience, I love making it as simple as I can but damage is just not possible with the gooseberry fool head ai.

Really ruins what should be an epic game when the ai is on rails and goes through you etc. especially when I did full races and the strawberry floater would do it in the last few laps wasting a lot of your time.