WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers

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PostWiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by bear » Wed Apr 15, 2009 10:53 am

http://www.gamasutra.com/php-bin/news_index.php?story=22974

According to multiple Gamasutra development sources, Nintendo's WiiWare service has a minimum sales threshold in place -- under which indie game developers do not get paid at all.

Originally discussed by Gamasutra publisher and IGF chairman Simon Carless in his Independent Games Summit talk at this year's GDC, for which full slides are available online, we reached out to Nintendo for further comment on the report.

Multiple sources have indicated to Gamasutra that there is a minimum amount of sales, on a per-territory basis, that WiiWare developers must reach in order to recoup any money at all for their games.

It is believed that this sales number is set in the mid-four figure range for North America, and lower four figures for individual European territories. Until a WiiWare title sells over that number, nothing will be paid out.

Gamasutra has spoken off the record to multiple developers who have acknowledged the limit, and at least one small independent studio whose staff believes they will never reach the minimum sales threshold to be paid anything for their WiiWare title.

Although Nintendo's reasons for instituting such a lower limit are unclear, it may have been done in part to stop large amounts of so-called "shovelware" titles flooding the service.

However, with the twin issues of no demo version and lack of storage space, it seems that some lower-selling WiiWare games may have done worse than Nintendo expected. This has made the minimum sales limit more of a potential issue than Nintendo realized when originally pitching game creators on the service.

In the wake of the company's GDC announcement on Wii storage fixes and resulting sales boosts for some WiiWare games, the issue may be somewhat ameliorated.

But with some titles long since launched and off the WiiWare charts, and over 75 titles already available on the service, some independent developers may be resigned to receiving no money for their existing work, unless Nintendo considers changing this rule.

Following GDC, Gamasutra's outreach on the subject to Nintendo elicited the following response: "Due to the nature of the story, Nintendo is putting forth this response: 'We do not discuss our internal business dealings.'"

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Eighthours
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Eighthours » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:05 am

The cycle of Nintendo's reputation continues. :(

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Hexx
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Hexx » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:11 am

Nintendo: Corporate Bastards.

It's not that shocking - they've just always seem better at hiding their ruthlessness

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Shadow
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Shadow » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:27 am

Hmm, it makes no mention of what this threshold actually is, does it? Does anyone know what sort of profit share that Nintendo offers with WiiWare?

I know with XBLA MS tend to take between 50 and 70% of the revenue (depending on the size of the developer and quality of the title), the worst selling game on there is the Barbie game which has shifted over 30,000 units. I couldn't imagine Nintendo's threshold being as high as that.

I have to say though, I've been thinking about going indie and this would definitely put me off developing for the Wii.

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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Kiran » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:41 am

I guess it depends on what costs are involved for Nintendo. Once a developer has finished the game, I assume it has to go through some QA procedure by Nintendo. After this process (which will no doubt involve a bit of back and forth between Nintendo and the developer) Nintendo will have other costs of getting the game uploaded to their servers, testing download & install, plus a small cost associated with each game purely for having it available at all times.

So Nintendo will need to sell a certain amount of copies to recover their investment. This seems more of a business arrangement though which doesn't really encourage independant developers.

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Eighthours
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Eighthours » Wed Apr 15, 2009 11:49 am

Kiran wrote:So Nintendo will need to sell a certain amount of copies to recover their investment. This seems more of a business arrangement though which doesn't really encourage independant developers.


And somewhat goes against the PR about WiiWare's accessibility to indies.

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TheTurnipKing
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by TheTurnipKing » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:13 pm

Indeed. It's Nintendo's loss. It's not like Indie developers are struggling for venues to distribute their work, what with Live Arcade, PSN, Steam and simple self-publishing.

It's not like indie developers are obliged to risk Wii-Ware.

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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Christopher » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:21 pm

TheTurnipKing wrote:Indeed. It's Nintendo's loss. It's not like Indie developers are struggling for venues to distribute their work, what with Live Arcade, PSN, Steam and simple self-publishing.

It's not like indie developers are obliged to risk Wii-Ware.


With Sony offering to 100% fund an exclusive(with devs keeping the ip) and XNA, Nintendo are not doing themselves any favours.

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mokeyjoe
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by mokeyjoe » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:25 pm

I approve of this limit. They should have it on retail games too, hopefully it would reduce the shovelware.

Wiiware isn't a community games feature like you have on XBox live. And look at the utter dross that gets released on there.

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Kiran
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Kiran » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:26 pm

suzzopher wrote:
With Sony offering to 100% fund an exclusive(with devs keeping the ip) and XNA, Nintendo are not doing themselves any favours.


Nintendo's thinking is probably that as they have the biggest userbase, there is potential for making a lot of money for something developed for the Wii. I bet the reality though is that for downloads, they have the smallest user base of the three.

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Rik
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Rik » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:46 pm

it may have been done in part to stop large amounts of so-called "shovelware" titles flooding the service.


They should introduce it for disc retail games then :lol:

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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Shadow » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:49 pm

Kiran wrote:I guess it depends on what costs are involved for Nintendo. Once a developer has finished the game, I assume it has to go through some QA procedure by Nintendo. After this process (which will no doubt involve a bit of back and forth between Nintendo and the developer) Nintendo will have other costs of getting the game uploaded to their servers, testing download & install, plus a small cost associated with each game purely for having it available at all times.

So Nintendo will need to sell a certain amount of copies to recover their investment. This seems more of a business arrangement though which doesn't really encourage independant developers.


I'd be amazed if Nintendo took less than 50% of the revenue from every game sold.

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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by HSH28 » Wed Apr 15, 2009 12:49 pm

How good or bad this is for developers surely depends on what the whole deal is with WiiWare titles, if Nintendo take a lesser percentage of the sales after the threshold has been reached, it could mean a better deal for developersl than other services, not a worse one.

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Neph
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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Neph » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:30 pm

they say mid to low 4 figure range in european countrys and high 4 figure range in the US so thats between:

1,000-9,999 Units sold.

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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Christopher » Wed Apr 15, 2009 1:47 pm

Neph wrote:they say mid to low 4 figure range in european countrys and high 4 figure range in the US so thats between:

1,000-9,999 Units sold.


That is a big range.

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PostRe: WiiWare
by randomguy » Wed Apr 15, 2009 2:00 pm

suzzopher wrote:
Neph wrote:they say mid to low 4 figure range in european countrys and high 4 figure range in the US so thats between:

1,000-9,999 Units sold.


That is a big range.


Especially when they don't offer trial versions of any of these games.

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PostRe: WiiWare's Minimum Sales Threshold Affects Developers
by Alvin Flummux » Wed Apr 15, 2009 3:09 pm

A WiiWare dev would have to do really badly not to go beyond a threshold of 1,000-5,000 or so sales. Hell, one dev told IGN this was a good thing. The only real downside was the plan not going quite so well with the storage problem (which has been fixed and has had very good results), and the lack of a demo (not fixed yet).

Really, it's not as bad as it seems. There's quite a few comments here that can explain better. Games sell differently online than in retail. The way I see it, your game would have to be gooseberry fool not to reach the threshold.


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