Your favourite Star Trek series

That's because they were all gooseberry fool at the start

Fatal Exception wrote:That's because they were all gooseberry fool at the start

HIYO!

Does no one else remember the animated TV series?

Eighthours wrote:

captain red dog wrote:

Peter Crisp wrote:I felt Voyager had no character progression. The fact that the people on the Bridge at the start were almost exactly the same people at the end really didn't help. I would like to have seen some main character killed off or at least demoted so that others could come in to add fresh blood now and again.

The same could be said of all Trek's to be honest. The main crew stayed the same during all of TOS apart from adding Chekov, TNG stayed the same apart from Tasha Yar and the odd brief change with Polanski, DS9 lost Dax but gained Worf, Voyager lost Kes and gained Seven.

Aside from promotions and stuff that were also about equal on all the series.

That's not what he meant.

Character progression. Harry Kim at the end of Voyager Season Seven is exactly the same Harry Kim as in Parallax, the second episode of Season One. Chakotay at the end of Season Seven is the same Chakotay as in Parallax, the second episode of Season One. Aside from the Doctor and Seven, the characters are all identical in how they think, feel and act to how they were in Season One. It's the "reset button" problem again.

However, not a single character in DS9 is the same at the end of the run as they were at the start. Not even slightly.

Er I was referring mainly to the "killed off or at least demoted" comment.

In terms of character progression, granted Harry Kim didn't change at all. However I think Janeway, Tuvok, Paris and Torres changed as much as the DS9 and TNG characters. Janeway got more ruthless as the series went on, Tuvok became much warmer after spending so long with humans, Paris reconciled with his father and gained the trust of the crew that cooled down his hotheadedness and Torres learned to control her anger and accept her Klingon heritage.

I'd argue they changed just as much as their DS9 and TNG counterparts. Could you really say that Geordie, Worf, Crusher, O'Brian, Bashir or Riker really changed outside of their key episodes? As per the rules of Trek, they all seemed to revert back to type the following week.

Octoroc wrote:Does no one else remember the animated TV series?

LOVED that. Got the novelisations as well ¬_¬

You are all applying logic to a very subjective matter. Stop it.

Voyager

DS9>VGR>NXG

Eighthours' incredibly tedious rant actually convinced me to put Voyager above Next Gen. But yeah, DS9 had everything: the plotline, the action, the characters...all were top notch. Then of course there was the twisty turny story arch that linked it all together. A genuinle epic saga it was. Marvellous.

.

Deep Space 9 became absolutely amazing from season 4 onwards. A lot of TNG was really great TV, but its mostly interchangeable episodes date it a bit these days. DS9's Dominion arc on the other hand still stands up as something rather special.

Just to be different, I also really liked the third season of Enterprise, after the first third or so at least. It offered a glimpse in that one season of what Voyager should have been all along, a show about a Starfleet ship cut off from the Federation in uncharted space. The reset button was chucked out the airlock, and the plot provided a sense of urgency that forced the crew to end and break the rules for the sake of bigger things. The fourth season attempted something of a compromise, with several three episode long mini-arcs, but it was all a bit fanwanky. That and the last episode was an abomination.

Star Trek has always been about episodes where everything is resolved by the end. Sure there have been a few mixes to the formula, but provided the storylines are good I see no reason why they need to deviate from that for anymore than a few episodes per season (which all the series managed to do for the most part).

The only time it doesn't work are the crap episodes where they hit a massive reset button, for which all the series are guilty.

captain red dog wrote:Star Trek has always been about episodes where everything is resolved by the end. Sure there have been a few mixes to the formula, but provided the storylines are good I see no reason why they need to deviate from that for anymore than a few episodes per season (which all the series managed to do for the most part).

The only time it doesn't work are the crap episodes where they hit a massive reset button, for which all the series are guilty.

I think they do that so episodes can be shown in syndication without having to worry about keeping them in order.

MCN wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Star Trek has always been about episodes where everything is resolved by the end. Sure there have been a few mixes to the formula, but provided the storylines are good I see no reason why they need to deviate from that for anymore than a few episodes per season (which all the series managed to do for the most part).

The only time it doesn't work are the crap episodes where they hit a massive reset button, for which all the series are guilty.

I think they do that so episodes can be shown in syndication without having to worry about keeping them in order.

They did. Indeed, the original series was actually something of a flop until it hit synidcation. Obviously the market's a little different today, what with DVD sales and stuff. Even Stargate Universe is supposed to be taking a more arc heavy approach compared to its predecessors.

While Stargate has an overall plot you can still get away with playing most out of order.
I'm hoping the new series Stargate Universe can learn a few thing from Battlestar about how long story arcs can really work but you have to stick with it unlike Battlestar which was forced to have more standalone episodes after series 2. I'd like it to have another 4 season long continuous story arc with as much ambition as Babylon 5. Characters that really grow and blossom over the series to be as fantastic as Mollari and G'Kar would be a real treat.

Peter Crisp wrote:While Stargate has an overall plot you can still get away with playing most out of order.
I'm hoping the new series Stargate Universe can learn a few thing from Battlestar about how long story arcs can really work but you have to stick with it unlike Battlestar which was forced to have more standalone episodes after series 2. I'd like it to have another 4 season long continuous story arc with as much ambition as Babylon 5. Characters that really grow and blossom over the series to be as fantastic as Mollari and G'Kar would be a real treat.

Stargate? Isn't this a Star Trek thread?

Although I love Stargate.

StayingDead wrote:Stargate? Isn't this a Star Trek thread?

Although I love Stargate.

I know sorry for derailing the topic I was just responding to Mogster's post.

Peter Crisp wrote:I'm hoping the new series Stargate Universe can learn a few thing from Battlestar about how long story arcs can really work but you have to stick with it unlike Battlestar which was forced to have more standalone episodes after series 2.

It wasn't forced into anything. Moore originally planned an arc to deal with the Sagitarans, kicking off with a version of the filler episode dealing with them. He ended up jetissoning the arc at the last minute due to it being a bit rubbish, which explains the wodge of filler clogging up the middle of season 3. I don't think season 4's had a single episode that didn't push the arc forwards, and with only two left I can't see that changing.

Anyhoo, Star Trek.

Mogster wrote:

MCN wrote:

captain red dog wrote:Star Trek has always been about episodes where everything is resolved by the end. Sure there have been a few mixes to the formula, but provided the storylines are good I see no reason why they need to deviate from that for anymore than a few episodes per season (which all the series managed to do for the most part).

The only time it doesn't work are the crap episodes where they hit a massive reset button, for which all the series are guilty.

I think they do that so episodes can be shown in syndication without having to worry about keeping them in order.

They did. Indeed, the original series was actually something of a flop until it hit synidcation. Obviously the market's a little different today, what with DVD sales and stuff. Even Stargate Universe is supposed to be taking a more arc heavy approach compared to its predecessors.

Yep. I'm not saying story arcs are better or worse than the episode of the week format, just that good scripts should make both formats viable.

A nice mix of a few arcs and a few standalone episode per season is probably the perfect solution. I just hope the new film creates a need for a new series. It has been too long already without a TV Trek to follow.

Its a matter of taste not logic. Tuvok and Spock type behaviour have no place in this thread.

I only really got into the one with Patrick Stewart. That was really only because i wanted to bum the psychic bird. Cant remember her name. Remember her wally john blacks though.

She was gooseberry fool and irritating though. "I sense...hostility" .... yeah no gooseberry fool, couldn't have worked that out for ourselves when the aliens turn up with guns and a warship.