YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist

Anything to do with games at all.
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Captain Kinopio
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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Captain Kinopio » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:07 pm

I’m don’t really know about laws on using someone else’s IP to spread hate, but I presume Rockstar would be within their right to request YouTube take stuff like this down. It sounds like YouTube had the right instincts in the first place by taking it down and then submitted to internet outrage by putting it back up. I have no idea why companies continue to do this, because it invariably always leaves them in more of a mess than if they’d just stuck with their original position (see Disney and James Gunn). What are they afraid the morons complaining are going to do, stop watching YouTube? As if, and even if they did, who gives a gooseberry fool.

Incidentally, I really enjoyed the feminist encounter I’ve done in the game so far, so I’m glad they’re in there. It wasn’t a particularly interesting mission but just the way it played out felt really nice and made me feel like I was more a part of history while playing the game. Also, feeding people to alligators in game is undeniably funny, I’m absolutely going to do that. The fact that some people are going to be dicks and try and play out their own hateful agenda to any audience they can get shouldn’t stop other people from having fun. You can’t limit the freedom of the many because of a few people are going to be banana splits.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Garth » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:20 pm

Green Gecko wrote:I think in this case, a large and public media force does have a responsibility to moderate the breeding of hate, and nobody has a right to express it in a private forum. From a private capital point of view, it's not in their best interests to provide a magnet for hatred either.

Exactly. The big social media companies have done a pretty poor job of moderating their platforms over the years though too, which has helped spread and inflame a lot of the divisions we're seeing today.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Venom » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:41 pm

Gemini73 wrote:What's people's thoughts on being able to set off the nuke in Megaton in Fallout 3 thus killing everyone there, including children?


It's an excellent question that highlights the unconscious contradiction. So one type of in-game slaughter is okay, but another type isn't?! It doesn't makes sense why so many long time gamers here are taking this line... but I now think I understand what's going on - political tribalism. The last 2-3 years have seen the political conversation in the USA become very toxic, and there are some people in the UK feel close to the conversation. This is about Democrats vs Republicans with people on one side attacking anybody they see on the other side.


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Sarah Jeong, left leaning, New York Times, criticised for her racist tweets. Colin Moriarty, right leaning, Kinda Funny Games, criticised for his misogynist tweet. Diablo fans at ComicCon boo the the reveal of a Diablo mobile game (that is probably filled with much hated bugbear by journey and public alike - micro transactions) because they wanted Diablo 4 news. Stats show mobile games are played by a higher percentage of women than play home console games, so these entitled fanboys were lambasted by many in the games media for being anti-women. It seems everybody on the internet is trying to make everything into a left vs right war - when sometimes it really isn't.





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Green Gecko wrote:Let's be honest what this latest sweep of anti-censorship is really about. A minority claim that a majority wants to prevent them from acting out their fantasies of destroying individuals they do not agree with, when really they are simply sad and hurt that they do not have more people around them and fistbumping them because they also want to simulate and/or beat the living gooseberry fool out of someone with different organs and different ideas, because they lack empathy of any kind. So they corral around on the Internet with other digital incantations of other "suppressed" individuals. The sad thing is the same groups do actually hook up and murder and gang rape the subject of their hatred because they cannot imagine any other way dealing with it. It is a fact that it is less likely they will be bludgeoned, cut, batoned firmly up the buttocks until their holes bleed because they are the dominant sex.

Somebody call the waambulance. Bunch of cretins the lot of them.


How many times have WE as a computer and video game community watched the news about some psycho who killed people, and had to listen to the rubbish that the media blamed the evil behaviour on computer games?

How many times have we been forced to hear the rubbish that computer games were these killers 'training ground' that allowed them to live out their fantasises before pushing them to go on to do the real thing?

How many times have we come together and said 'this isn't true' and 'don't blame video games'?

But you can't have it both ways. Sorry but don't be like the mainstream media who blame computer games for bad people, they don't make people killers - and it's wrong to want to censor them to stop this.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Green Gecko » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:43 pm

I'm not talking about video game players, I'm talking about the individuals grouping together in a common cyberspace that say things like, "I wish I could kill feminists" in response to some depiction in whichever media of killing feminists. I did not actually make any reference to the game (the platform) or the media (the exhibition) because it is not relevant to whether or not somebody hates and wants to act out the fantasy of killing feminists, even if they don't, which isn't the same thing either.

Anti-censorship arguments are pretty much the default go-to angle for people who wish to hide the fact that they find such depictions glorious and so think they deserve to be protected. I find this irritating because it skirts around the very real issue of censorship and blaming the liberal arts for acts of violence, including when art is used to depict more specific acts of violence by the audience, which does not necessarily reflect on the art itself. That is because art cannot possibly be held responsible for every possible interpretation or application of it - the individual concerned is primarily responsible for how they choose to consume it free of the creator (the argument otherwise is a flagrant undermining of free will principles which is illogical and often unscientific).

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Venom » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:56 pm

I'm very glad to hear it.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Captain Kinopio » Thu Nov 08, 2018 9:59 pm

Venom wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:What's people's thoughts on being able to set off the nuke in Megaton in Fallout 3 thus killing everyone there, including children?


It's an excellent question that highlights the unconscious contradiction. So one type of in-game slaughter is okay, but another type isn't?! It doesn't makes sense why so many long time gamers here are taking this line... but I now think I understand what's going on - political tribalism. The last 2-3 years have seen the political conversation in the USA become very toxic, and there are some people in the UK feel close to the conversation. This is about Democrats vs Republicans with people on one side attacking anybody they see on the other side.


Image

Sarah Jeong, left leaning, New York Times, criticised for her racist tweets. Colin Moriarty, right leaning, Kinda Funny Games, criticised for his misogynist tweet. Diablo fans at ComicCon boo the the reveal of a Diablo mobile game (that is probably filled with much hated bugbear by journey and public alike - micro transactions) because they wanted Diablo 4 news. Stats show mobile games are played by a higher percentage of women than play home console games, so these entitled fanboys were lambasted by many in the games media for being anti-women. It seems everybody on the internet is trying to make everything into a left vs right war - when sometimes it really isn't.





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Green Gecko wrote:Let's be honest what this latest sweep of anti-censorship is really about. A minority claim that a majority wants to prevent them from acting out their fantasies of destroying individuals they do not agree with, when really they are simply sad and hurt that they do not have more people around them and fistbumping them because they also want to simulate and/or beat the living gooseberry fool out of someone with different organs and different ideas, because they lack empathy of any kind. So they corral around on the Internet with other digital incantations of other "suppressed" individuals. The sad thing is the same groups do actually hook up and murder and gang rape the subject of their hatred because they cannot imagine any other way dealing with it. It is a fact that it is less likely they will be bludgeoned, cut, batoned firmly up the buttocks until their holes bleed because they are the dominant sex.

Somebody call the waambulance. Bunch of cretins the lot of them.


How many times have WE as a computer and video game community watched the news about some psycho who killed people, and had to listen to the rubbish that the media blamed the evil behaviour on computer games?

How many times have we been forced to hear the rubbish that computer games were these killers 'training ground' that allowed them to live out their fantasises before pushing them to go on to do the real thing?

How many times have we come together and said 'this isn't true' and 'don't blame video games'?

But you can't have it both ways. Sorry but don't be like the mainstream media who blame computer games for bad people, they don't make people killers - and it's wrong to want to censor them to stop this.


You must be able to tell the difference between indiscriminate chaotic slaughter as escapism and specifically targeting a subset of people to make a point.

I’ve had conversations with you as well so, I know that you know the ‘all killing is bad’ argument is ludicrously reductative and clearly not an applicable point to why the making of these videos is so objectionable.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by mic » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:21 pm

Gemini73 wrote:...What's people's thoughts on being able to set off the nuke in Megaton in Fallout 3 thus killing everyone there, including children?


I haven’t played the game but I wouldn’t have any problem with that. It isn’t really the same, since that’s part of the gameplay, rather than something the player came up with themselves.

Captain Kinopio wrote:...Also, feeding people to alligators in game is undeniably funny, I’m absolutely going to do that. The fact that some people are going to be dicks and try and play out their own hateful agenda to any audience they can get shouldn’t stop other people from having fun. You can’t limit the freedom of the many because of a few people are going to be banana splits.


Who will you feed to the crocks? A bad guy? A child, if you can? Black and brown people? Why give players that freedom, or choice? Other violent games, such as God of War, strictly prevent NPCs from being harmed, with no negative effect on gameplay. Is something lost because you can’t kill npcs? (not just at you CK, obviously)

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Captain Kinopio » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:41 pm

Probably a generic white dude as that’s the majority of NPCs.

They’re gender, race or age won’t be a factor.

Yes something is lost if you take it out of the game.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by mic » Thu Nov 08, 2018 10:51 pm

Venom wrote:Image

...But you can't have it both ways. Sorry but don't be like the mainstream media who blame computer games for bad people, they don't make people killers - and it's wrong to want to censor them to stop this.


Games don’t make people into killers in isolation, but surely you can see how they might exacerbate the problem? Just like with violent movies and music, I suppose, but to a new degree, with skilful players able to manipulate sandbox environments to suit their ends - something you can’t do with a movie.

Virtual kidnapping and murder within the confines of a story is one thing, but void of any storyline such actions are reprehensible, even in a game.

Captain Kinopio wrote:...Yes something is lost if you take it out of the game.


They wouldn’t have to take it out, just limit your victims to bad guys. Feeding people to crocs is a fine idea, but must you have the power to inflict that on everyone in the game? Or it’s ruined?

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Parksey » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:42 pm

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said, but I'm baffled that there are people here on the other side of the argument.

You aren't being restricted in any way by YouTube's actions. There's no problem with loading up the game yourself and endulging in some good old-fashioned woman-bashing like the times when yob could call a spade a spade and it was all trees around here and none of that PC bullshit and a Freedo still cost a ha'penny. If that's what you want to do, the game still allows you to do that. In fact, there's nothing "wrong" with this, as the game lets you basically kill anyone you want. That was never the issue.

The issue is specifically targeting a certain group or character because of their ideology and then uploading a video of you killing them, accompanied by fairly suspect language. I haven't seen the video myself, so I don't know if it was tongue in cheek, but the responses it seemed to have generated weren't so jovial.

It's pretty clear why it's different from uploading a video just going on a killing spree in game. It's specific and it's targeted against a certain aspect of society that is still prevelant today. Like others have said, had you went around killing only black NPCs in GTA V and started spouting similar stuff, you wouldn't want a video of that on YouTube.

I wouldn't say Rockstar need to share the blame for once either. They gave you the tools to harm any NPC in the game, but from what I've played, they've never tried to get you to target specific groups based on gender, race or politics.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Skarjo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 1:13 am

I think the fault here lies solely with the dickhead who made the video, and YouTube were entirely right to shove him off a cliff.

The game isn't discriminating, it's a sandbox of abilities and if you choose to use those abilities to play stupid games then don't be surprised when you win stupid prizes. It wouldn't be Mojang's fault if someone decided to build a 50 block monument that said 'Death to all kikes', but if some knobhead decided to do that then YouTube would rightly bar you from using their platform to profit from your knobheadery.

The freeze peach crowd will gooseberry fool their knickers as they always do, but given that they don't actually understand what free speech is, strawberry float 'em.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Green Gecko » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:00 am

Basically.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Skarjo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 3:19 am

Cal wrote:the GRcade Re-Educational Correctional Facility For Problematic Opinion Holders


I know the Feedback folder is a bit dry, but that's a bit harsh.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Rightey » Fri Nov 09, 2018 5:04 am

captain red dog wrote:I think this was clearly a joke, no intent was there to commit a hate crime.

Simon Miller has a video up where he goes on a massive shooting spree. In light of the (constant) recent events in the US, you could argue that's equally offensive.

But of course, this is a video game in a sandbox world. None of it is real, no feminists were actually punched and fed to alligators. If you ban that video, then you should be banning all the other RDR videos that have extreme graphic violence. It is a violent game, age restrict videos of it and that should be all that's required.


100% this. I can't believe this is actually being debated on a video game forum. This is a Rockstar game, everyone knows what they're famous for right? Open world games where you can commit criminal acts. If this was 10 years ago everyone would just laugh this off, it's just some idiot being an idiot, and it won't actually make people go out there and commit a violent crime. The same way playing GTA games didn't make anyone go out and murder prostitutes.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Knoyleo » Fri Nov 09, 2018 6:41 am

Rightey wrote:
captain red dog wrote:I think this was clearly a joke, no intent was there to commit a hate crime.

Simon Miller has a video up where he goes on a massive shooting spree. In light of the (constant) recent events in the US, you could argue that's equally offensive.

But of course, this is a video game in a sandbox world. None of it is real, no feminists were actually punched and fed to alligators. If you ban that video, then you should be banning all the other RDR videos that have extreme graphic violence. It is a violent game, age restrict videos of it and that should be all that's required.


100% this. I can't believe this is actually being debated on a video game forum. This is a Rockstar game, everyone knows what they're famous for right? Open world games where you can commit criminal acts. If this was 10 years ago everyone would just laugh this off, it's just some idiot being an idiot, and it won't actually make people go out there and commit a violent crime. The same way playing GTA games didn't make anyone go out and murder prostitutes.

Are you even reading the rest of the thread? People aren't bothered about the violence in the game, or concerned that's it's going to encourage violent behaviour, except for mic, for some reason. People are criticising the guy who's used game footage to create a video that's basically targeted harassment.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Pedz » Fri Nov 09, 2018 8:06 am

Thing is it's not just one video either. The guy went out of his way to make a series of videos, each one escalating in the violet death against a specific woman.

It'd be like me playing a game where I go out of my way to kill Martin Luther king in more vicious ways, getting my videos removed and then crying for that I'm not allowed to spread my racism.

Clearly the guy is a twat.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Moggy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:15 am

kerr9000 wrote:The way things are going we are heading down a distopian path to 1984/minority report levels where people can be judged on every little thought eventually before they've even really had it. Some times people try to be so progressive and left that they circle around the political line and become practically right wing fascist in there demands for people to think, feel and act only in the ways they deem acceptable.


All that because YouTube took a video down?

YouTube is a private company, they have the right to remove anything. If you made a completely innocent video and they remove it, then your freedom of speech has not been compromised because you have no right to expect YouTube to host it.

In this case, as far as I am aware, nobody has been arrested and so there is no dystopian path to 1984 where thoughts are crimes. It’s just a company looked at something hosted on their platform and thought “nah, strawberry float off with that”.

If the person who made the video ever gets arrested, then that is the time for hysterical rants about Orwell’s vision coming true.

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by mic » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:18 am

Well, the people who made that Glenville Tower video got arrested. Is it such a stretch...?

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Pedz » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:24 am

I guess the difference is one is a video game the other was real life?

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PostRe: YouTube shut down channel because of Read Dead video that shows murder of feminist
by Moggy » Fri Nov 09, 2018 9:29 am

mic wrote:Well, the people who made that Glenville Tower video got arrested. Is it such a stretch...?


Filming and uploading a video of you and your mates burning an effigy to a tower block fire that killed 72 people and then handing yourself into the police.

Vs

Uploading video of a video game titled “beating up annoying feminist” and YouTube removing it.

There’s a little bit of a difference.

If this person gets arrested then that is the time for hysterical rants about Orwell’s vision coming true.


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