GRRR FEMINISM and stuff - New Video Released. Fade mad.

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Skarjo
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PostGRRR FEMINISM and stuff - New Video Released. Fade mad.
by Skarjo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:38 pm





Anyone on the internet for the past year may already know the ongoing saga behind this series of videos.

However, it would appear that she has actually delivered one.

I'm only about ten minutes and so far it isn't desperately inspired, merely showing that video games reflect the 'damsel in distress' as a lazy trope. But she does at least admit that games did not invent the trope, merely fall into it very easily.

Hmm.

Last edited by Skarjo on Wed May 29, 2013 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:42 pm

You know she got pledged 150K to make this strawberry floating gooseberry fool? Shes just some feminazi nutcase, look at all her other videos, "Top 7 most sexist christmas songs", strawberry float off.
I actually think this would annoy me less if it were called 'Women in videogames tropes' too. Something about 'Tropes vs women in videogames' actually pisses me off a little bit more every time i read it.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by rudderless » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:56 pm

Fair play to the bitch, I say. That ho is representing all the chicks out there.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Qikzen » Fri Mar 08, 2013 12:58 pm

If women in real life want to dress themselves to appear sexy, who am I to say they shouldn't be allowed to. Same goes for games. Would you say a character like Bayonetta is demeaning to women when she's probably one of the strongest characters there are in gaming?

Especially when you look at real life, the stuff some women wear it makes you wonder why then hell she even put any clothes on. They don't do that because they feel forced too, that's a load of bullshit. They choose to do it and if they want to do it, what gives anyone the right to say they shouldn't be able to?

Also to moan about this and not moan at how the gaming/film industry thinks that every single male should be strong, look roided up and show zero emotions ever is a joke. I'd argue that that's worse.

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Skarjo
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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Skarjo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:01 pm

Yea, the saga of the kickstarter is beyond infamous at this point.

It's not a great video, to be honest. It takes a long time to make a very obvious point; that the Damsel in Distress trope is not particularly positive for women.

It is, in fairness, well researched. The examples are appropriate, if Nintendo-centric. It does make an interesting point about Zelda in that she gets to have all the awesome parallel roles when she's a man in drag, but the second she becomes obviously female again she always gets depowered and kidnapped, which is an interesting insight. It also make an interesting point about how when male characters are imprisoned, then escaping is always done under their own power, whereas females need rescuing.

The thing is, it's not really talking about video games. The damsel in distress trope is fundamentally anti-woman. It's got nothing to do with video games necessarily. If you use the trope, whether as a film, or a book, or a game, or whatever, then you're being lazy and simplistic. But it's not necessarily a criticism of video games.

Last edited by Skarjo on Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by rudderless » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:04 pm

Perhaps it's more predominant in video games than other media, though?

StayDead wrote:Also to moan about this and not moan at how the gaming/film industry thinks that every single male should be strong, look roided up and show zero emotions ever is a joke. I'd argue that that's worse.


1. It's not worse.
2. It's a series called 'Tropes vs Women in Video Games'. If you're expecting her to talk about male stereotypes, I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.

[iup=3595962]KB[/iup] wrote:People like Glen Whelan have a proper face!
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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by aayl1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:09 pm

Skarjo wrote:Yea, the saga of the kickstarter is beyond infamous at this point.


Yeah, I know right! Like, I totally do know, but how would you summarise it, for a mate of mine who doesn't?

Also yeah, watched the vid. Well researched, but the only decent point that was made was really "when the guys get put in prison they break out on their own", but even that's just an extension of "games are a bit sexist, aren't they"?

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Skarjo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:14 pm

rudderless wrote:Perhaps it's more predominant in video games than other media, though?

StayDead wrote:Also to moan about this and not moan at how the gaming/film industry thinks that every single male should be strong, look roided up and show zero emotions ever is a joke. I'd argue that that's worse.


1. It's not worse.
2. It's a series called 'Tropes vs Women in Video Games'. If you're expecting her to talk about male stereotypes, I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.


Well, yes and no.

This episode predominantly (and explicitly, given that the next episode was defined as dealing with the next decade) dealt with older game in which, arguably, yes, the damsel in distress trope was over-used. But, historically, movies and books have made no less extensive use of the trope in their relative infancy. So, at a time when games couldn't really tell stories, it's not surprising that 'writers' went for easy tropes like rescue the girl.

However, to treat video games as portraying negative images of women because they're depowered or whatever, but not even address the fact that male personality tropes are just as shallow and damaging (unless you think being a heartless, merciless killer is a positive thing) is just one sided.

Maybe what's more important is that video games are still in their infancy when it comes to character development, regardless of gender.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Dig Dug » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:41 pm

She got 150K for this? Most people do this kind of gooseberry fool for free because they really want to.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by jiggles » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:43 pm

Brerlappins little hat wrote:I actually think this would annoy me less if it were called 'Women in videogames tropes' too. Something about 'Tropes vs women in videogames' actually pisses me off a little bit more every time i read it.


That's not what it is, though. You don't read it as "Tropes vs. (Women in Videogames)", it's "Tropes vs. Women (in Videogames)". They're not supposed to be specific to videogames at all.

I thought the video was pretty good. She did well to keep it cool on the agenda and just let the examples speak for themselves. Couldn't argue with anything she said. I didn't expect it to break some kind of new ground or anything (because it's obvious how deep gaming's in to this kind of gooseberry fool already), but it was easily digestible and made me think, so fair play.

The hate she's been getting for this is incredible.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by elite knight danbo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:44 pm

jiggles wrote:The hate she's been getting for this is incredible.


Incredible PR.

Why are comments disabled on this video?

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Fizheuer Zieheuer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:47 pm

Dig Dug wrote:She got 150K for this? Most people do this kind of gooseberry fool for free because they really want to.


not really a valid criticism when this series was crowdfunded.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Fade » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:48 pm

Skarjo wrote:
rudderless wrote:Perhaps it's more predominant in video games than other media, though?

StayDead wrote:Also to moan about this and not moan at how the gaming/film industry thinks that every single male should be strong, look roided up and show zero emotions ever is a joke. I'd argue that that's worse.


1. It's not worse.
2. It's a series called 'Tropes vs Women in Video Games'. If you're expecting her to talk about male stereotypes, I think you might be barking up the wrong tree.


Well, yes and no.

This episode predominantly (and explicitly, given that the next episode was defined as dealing with the next decade) dealt with older game in which, arguably, yes, the damsel in distress trope was over-used. But, historically, movies and books have made no less extensive use of the trope in their relative infancy. So, at a time when games couldn't really tell stories, it's not surprising that 'writers' went for easy tropes like rescue the girl.

However, to treat video games as portraying negative images of women because they're depowered or whatever, but not even address the fact that male personality tropes are just as shallow and damaging (unless you think being a heartless, merciless killer is a positive thing) is just one sided.

Maybe what's more important is that video games are still in their infancy when it comes to character development, regardless of gender.

I agree her only focusing on women implies that male stereotypes are okay/positive and that all men like them.
This is what bugs me about feminism. Women have far more freedom to do what they like than men do. If anything it's men that are constrained by stereotypes these days.
If you're a man you cannot act the slightest bit feminine or people will look down on you for it. At least other men do anyways.
While women are free to dress in typically male clothing, do typically male jobs, where as if a man did the same he would get mocked for it.
The male nanny in friends is a perfect example. Or when Ross wears a pink shirt, or when the fact that Joey and Chandler get more feminine in certain episodes it's meant to be funny.
God, Friends is a gold mine :slol:

Most games tend to be action games, most men tend to be more physically capable than women, therefore men are usually put in roles which involve them being more physically capable. While women are put in roles which are not. That's the only reason a lot of video games are as they are. Not saying it's right or wrong. But even saying that, a lot of modern games are pretty good about gender roles. I mean for example in Uncharted Elena and Chloe save you multiple times, in Mass Effect half the characters are female, characters like Jack are portrayed as even more powerful than most of the men, in the walking dead there are a lot of strong women, In Half Life there's really no gender stereotypes at all. Even in things like Devil May Cry (new and old) and God of War there are powerful female characters. Even in strawberry floating BulletStorm.

Last edited by Fade on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by jiggles » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:50 pm

elite knight danbo wrote:Why are comments disabled on this video?


Because:

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Skarjo » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:51 pm

aayl1 wrote:
Skarjo wrote:Yea, the saga of the kickstarter is beyond infamous at this point.


Yeah, I know right! Like, I totally do know, but how would you summarise it, for a mate of mine who doesn't?


She ran a Kickstarter which raised a fuckton of money. Nothing unusual there, but there were several issues.

First, (and I haven't followed the scandal religiously so it may been blown out of proportion by Reddit and 4Chan), it's taken strawberry floating ages since the kickstarter to actually see anything.

Second, as Dug said, she was essentially asking for money to buy all the games she'd need to play. Despite having supposedly being a big gamer for years. I will be honest, looking at episode one, there's little research that would need $150K to uncover. But, again, it's episode one. Doubt and benefit therein etc.

Third, and probably most damaging, points one and two led to extreme criticism. Now, the criticism was extreme. Excessive, personal and misogynistic. However, her reaction to said criticism was to milk it in interviews and talk shows as evidence of how aggressive and male-dominated and misogynistic gaming was as a hobby and culture. Which further fuelled the critics and so we're all part of the great circle of life.

So to actually see a video emerge is interesting. As I said, it's part one, so I'll hold off on judgement. However, part one, whilst having a couple of nice points, was well researched but shallow and lacking any real relevance to gaming as a specific culture as opposed to just critiquing the Damsel in Distress as a prominent and historical plot device, which others have done first and better.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Dig Dug » Fri Mar 08, 2013 1:59 pm

Fizheuer Zieheuer wrote:
Dig Dug wrote:She got 150K for this? Most people do this kind of gooseberry fool for free because they really want to.


not really a valid criticism when this series was crowdfunded.

I know it was crowd funded, just goes to show people put money ahead of reason.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by aayl1 » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:00 pm

I'd give her a good knobbing, though.

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Mistletooth » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:01 pm

Huh. Never thought about how they changed up Dinosaur Planet to Starfox Adventures like that before.

Skarjo wrote:Maybe what's more important is that video games are still in their infancy when it comes to character development, regardless of gender.

I still find this a bit of a weird argument. How long have games been trying to tell some kind of story? Thirty years or so? I don't think the problem is the medium is still in some kind of infancy but that video games are deliberately kept somewhat infantile (on the whole) in how they portray certain things.

I agree it seems crazy she required $150,000 to do this though. It's not particularly ground breaking stuff.

EDIT - Well maybe not required, I don't know what the original target was.

Last edited by Mistletooth on Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Rubix » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:02 pm

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Seriously she does go on a bit

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PostRe: GRRR FEMINISM and stuff.
by Venom » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:06 pm

Brerlappins little hat wrote:You know she got pledged 150K to make this strawberry floating gooseberry fool? Shes just some feminazi nutcase, look at all her other videos, "Top 7 most sexist christmas songs", strawberry float off.



There's nothing wrong with her doing this stuff, the subject matter is noble, and critical discussion helps with those who want to call videogames art. However its not my bag for two reasons. The first is there is too much whinging (for my tastes), but that doesn't matter as some US universities are using the videos in feminism classes. The other thing is this does not make compelling viewing, it is not a TV programme, this is an essay with her reading it to the camera. I've watched the start of a few cheap American documentaries on Netflix and they are just drab..

This aint my bag but she is a astute and engaging (but not engaging enough to compel me to watch her talk for 24 minutes). She went on to Kickstarter and asked for $6000 and got $160,000! The videos editing is fine and if she did it herselfor got it done cheap then she must be dancing on the ceiling with all that money. Brilliant!

rudderless wrote:Fair play to the bitch.


:lol: I think that's the funniest thing you've said.


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