Politics Thread 7: Dishy Rishi's Cabinet of Horrors

[Outrunner]

Nobody with the values of a tory should then go 'oh actually, now i do care about poor people.' Labour shouldn't have anything to do with them.

There are two ways of looking at this. Performative defections (like this one seems to be, at least from my POV) should be discouraged and I'm definitely not happy about it. On the flipside, if someone goes from having strong right-wing views and realises they were wrong shouldn't we encourage and welcome them if they've had a genuine change of heart? Example: A friend of mine was brought up in a very pro-Conservative household and though her views weren't as strong as her dads ( ) she was raised with Tory values. Years later she's heavily involved with various left-wing protest movements. She's probably more radical than me and I was raised in a very left leaning family. Should the fact that she once had Tory values be held against her forever? Should I have shunned her from day one?

[Oblomov Boblomov]

Oh my god, I've just been reminded Elphicke is the one who joined in the 'shame on you' chant before realising it was about her!

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/natalie-elphicke-labour-protest-ferries-b2541803.html

[Moggy]

Apparantly the Tory MP who defected is standing down at the election anyway, this is purely to humiliate Sunak it looks like.

It might humiliate Sunak, but it also shames Starmer.

[Curls]

Nobody with the values of a tory should then go 'oh actually, now i do care about poor people.' Labour shouldn't have anything to do with them.

There are two ways of looking at this. Performative defections (like this one seems to be, at least from my POV) should be discouraged and I'm definitely not happy about it. On the flipside, if someone goes from having strong right-wing views and realises they were wrong shouldn't we encourage and welcome them if they've had a genuine change of heart? Example: A friend of mine was brought up in a very pro-Conservative household and though her views weren't as strong as her dads ( ) she was raised with Tory values. Years later she's heavily involved with various left-wing protest movements. She's probably more radical than me and I was raised in a very left leaning family. Should the fact that she once had Tory values be held against her forever? Should I have shunned her from day one?

I did wonder if when I posted if a reply like this would be made;and it's one of the reasons I went back and added' from where I'm standing;' and no absolutely not in the case of your friend. People can change for sure. I'm just unsure I have that faith in politicians unless they truly prove themselves.

[Moggy]

Nobody with the values of a tory should then go 'oh actually, now i do care about poor people.' Labour shouldn't have anything to do with them.

There are two ways of looking at this. Performative defections (like this one seems to be, at least from my POV) should be discouraged and I'm definitely not happy about it. On the flipside, if someone goes from having strong right-wing views and realises they were wrong shouldn't we encourage and welcome them if they've had a genuine change of heart? Example: A friend of mine was brought up in a very pro-Conservative household and though her views weren't as strong as her dads ( ) she was raised with Tory values. Years later she's heavily involved with various left-wing protest movements. She's probably more radical than me and I was raised in a very left leaning family. Should the fact that she once had Tory values be held against her forever? Should I have shunned her from day one?

Of course we should encourage people with right wing/far right views to change their ways. And those views should not be held against them forever.

But, it depends on what they have done/said and they actually have to change those views.

Somebody like Farage has done way too much damage and said way too many horrible things for me to ever trust him in the highly unlikely event that he suddenly becomes left wing.

Whereas somebody like your friend is mostly blameless in my opinion. She was brought up with those views but as she grew up, she realised she didn't believe in them and changed her mind. There's nothing wrong with that and she has nothing to apologise for.

[Carlos]

On the flipside, if someone goes from having strong right-wing views and realises they were wrong shouldn't we encourage and welcome them if they've had a genuine change of heart? Example: A friend of mine was brought up in a very pro-Conservative household and though her views weren't as strong as her dads ( ) she was raised with Tory values. Years later she's heavily involved with various left-wing protest movements. She's probably more radical than me and I was raised in a very left leaning family. Should the fact that she once had Tory values be held against her forever? Should I have shunned her from day one?

Was she hot?

All jokes aside as a society we could do with a little more forgiveness and a few more second chances. Are we not always railing against cancel culture and the idea that people cannot be sorry for their actions? Benefit of the doubt, I say.

[Moggy]

Are we not always railing against cancel culture

No, because nobody here is a GB News presenter.

[Cuttooth]

It's just wishful thinking to believe someone with Elphicke's recent views and actions has miraculously changed her ways without anything to actually back that up. Has she said which parts of the 2019 Tory manifesto she now fundamentally disagrees with, or which Labour policies have won her over?

Everyone should be able to have a second chance but it requires some actual contrition on their part!

[Rex Kramer]

What will be key is whether Starmer has agreed to allow her to stand as a Labour candidate somewhere else. Has that question been asked?

[Garth]

Standing down at the next election:

twitter.com/nadhimzahawi/status/1788448836068810893

[Garth]

twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1788462769970233813

[Moggy]

At this rate, the Tories will be behind Reform.

And a Lib Dem/Green merger could then push the Tories into 4th.

[Tomous]

Lib Dem support there looks relatively static. Tory vote being lost over the last 18 months either going to Labour or Reform?

[Lex-Man]

Any other leader would be 20 points ahead. 30 is just rude.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

What will be key is whether Starmer has agreed to allow her to stand as a Labour candidate somewhere else. Has that question been asked?

Surely all of Labour's parliamentary candidates have been confirmed by now? Would be outrageous to strawberry float over someone who got through that process.

twitter.com/lara_spirit/status/1788462769970233813

That 7-point downward trend from late-2023 to now would be wonderful if it wasn't mirrored perfectly by the Reform rise .

[Sprouty]

Libdem support is very poor, considering. If they can't capitalise on the drop on Tory support, you have to wonder if they have a lasting purpose. Green and Reform can at least claim to be setting the agenda from time to time. I'm not sure what Libdems currently stand for and on paper, they're the party closest to me politically.

What Libdems are good at, is campaigning hard in the places that they have a shot and turning their 10% national vote share in to MPs in parliament. On this basis, they'll probably finish next General Election with similar numbers to the coalition days and if projections are to be believed, finish with more seats than Torys.

Some projections put Conservatives as the 4th largest party in parliament, behind Labour, Libdem & SNP, which would actually be huge for Libdems, as they'd be the official opposition, the ones asking questions at PMQs, really growing their voice, but the fact that they could get there from the 4th highest national vote share would be a strange quirk which sees them as a rare beneficiary of the first past the post system. In those circumstances, I wonder whether they would still be keen to change to PR...

[Moggy]

If that YouGov poll was repeated at a general election, it'd look like this:

[Tomous]

13 seats

[Oblomov Boblomov]

13 seats

They'd be extinct from a combination of scandal-forced resignations and defections within a year!

[Tomous]

I can't imagine what would happen in that scenario to be honest. Would someone try to create a phoenix party?