jawa asks...Is Japan living and culture as good as it appears to be?

[Lagamorph]

Japan also has a reputation of being some high tech sci-fi land, yet it's almost the exact opposite. Typically official paperwork requires people to go to government offices and use ink stamps and there are so many things we can do online that just can't in Japan, they have to be done in person. Even the things that can be done online, Japanese Web design is still very firmly stuck on the 90s and can make GeoCites look like cutting edge Web design.

The Tokyo rail system is also an utter disaster to navigate if you don't have an IC card (think an equivalent to an Oyster card). It'd be like if London Underground was run by 4 different rail lines instead of all run by TfL, with each line needing it's own ticket. Also only one of the lines let's you buy a ticket by saying your destination station, the other lines make you pick a ticket price for the zone you're going to, but there's about 50 zones and the maps at the stations, along with the ticket machines, are rail line company specific, so you need to find the ticket machine for that rail line then decipher an insane map.
If you have an IC card then you can use it on all the rail lines, but you can only top it up in person with cash at a ticket machine. It's starting to get a bit better, you can get some IC cards on iPhone now and top them up digitally, but that's limited to just iPhones at the moment.

[Moggy]

Japan also has a reputation of being some high tech sci-fi land, yet it's almost the exact opposite. Typically official paperwork requires people to go to government offices and use ink and there are so many things we can do online that just can't in Japan, they have to be done in person. Even the things that can be done online, Japanese Web design is still very firmly stuck on the 90s and can make GeoCites look like cutting edge Web design.

I don't know if it's still true, but I remember reading a few years ago that Japan is one of the few places left that has a high use of fax machines.

[shy guy 64]

my best friend went to japan on his honeymoon. however the main thing i remember him telling me apart from the pokemon centre is that there were tea vending machines all over.

[Skarjo]

Japan also has a reputation of being some high tech sci-fi land, yet it's almost the exact opposite. Typically official paperwork requires people to go to government offices and use ink and there are so many things we can do online that just can't in Japan, they have to be done in person. Even the things that can be done online, Japanese Web design is still very firmly stuck on the 90s and can make GeoCites look like cutting edge Web design.

I don't know if it's still true, but I remember reading a few years ago that Japan is one of the few places left that has a high use of fax machines.

It was definitely a thing when I was there. When my boss told me I had to fax in my time sheets I thought he was joking.

He was not.

[speedboatchase]

I recently started Shogun and the main guy is having a tough time of it.

[Tomous]

my best friend went to japan on his honeymoon. however the main thing i remember him telling me apart from the pokemon centre is that there were tea vending machines all over.

Japan is absolutely covered in vending machines, it blew my mind how many there were-they just can't all be viable.

[Skarjo]

my best friend went to japan on his honeymoon. however the main thing i remember him telling me apart from the pokemon centre is that there were tea vending machines all over.

Japan is absolutely covered in vending machines, it blew my mind how many there were-they just can't all be viable.

Yea, it was weird though because a not insignificant number of locals will insist of having the drink there and then rather than keep walking, presumably so they can put the empty in the little can bin next to it. But it’s like… surely the point of the vending machine is so you grab one on the go. If you wanted to stop for a coffee then we could have just gone to a proper coffee shop.

Basically, strawberry float you Miku, it’s cold out let’s just get going, strawberry floats sake.

[Qikz]

The Tokyo rail system is also an utter disaster to navigate if you don't have an IC card (think an equivalent to an Oyster card). It'd be like if London Underground was run by 4 different rail lines instead of all run by TfL, with each line needing it's own ticket. Also only one of the lines let's you buy a ticket by saying your destination station, the other lines make you pick a ticket price for the zone you're going to, but there's about 50 zones and the maps at the stations, along with the ticket machines, are rail line company specific, so you need to find the ticket machine for that rail line then decipher an insane map.
.

Maybe this is because I know Japanese but I didn't really have issues with this in Tokyo and even out in the countryside - I didn't have an IC Card and just used tickets every day. All the stations are clearly labelled with the amounts you need usually in the map you need and sometimes on the ticketing machines themselves. In the bigger stations in Tokyo there's signs everywhere pointing you to the right ticketing machines and it's not usually per rail company it's done by train line and usually the ticketing machines for those are just outside the gates you'd need to go into to enter the line itself.

In the countryside you usually just hit a button, it gives you a ticket and then you pay for however many stops you've been on on the train directly at the end, either to the driver or to the second guy on the train.

my best friend went to japan on his honeymoon. however the main thing i remember him telling me apart from the pokemon centre is that there were tea vending machines all over.

Japan is absolutely covered in vending machines, it blew my mind how many there were-they just can't all be viable.

It's amazing walking around in the middle of nowhere and being able to just get a drink whenever you want as there's just a vending machine just sitting there - it was a lifesaver last summer. They're also not that much more expensive than going to a store to get something as well so it's super useful. I wish we actually had decent/affordable/useful vending machines here

[Outrunner]

Japan also has a reputation of being some high tech sci-fi land, yet it's almost the exact opposite. Typically official paperwork requires people to go to government offices and use ink and there are so many things we can do online that just can't in Japan, they have to be done in person. Even the things that can be done online, Japanese Web design is still very firmly stuck on the 90s and can make GeoCites look like cutting edge Web design.

I don't know if it's still true, but I remember reading a few years ago that Japan is one of the few places left that has a high use of fax machines.

The reliance on fax machines for reporting COVID cases was a real issue during the pandemic.

[aayl1]

They also have signs on their public transport network asking men not to take upskirt pictures of women, or did in 2016 anyway. Aaron told me last night you can't turn the photo-click sound off on Japanese phones for this reason, and they have safe, women-only cars on their trains. So attitudes to women seem to be pretty grim.

As I also mentioned last night I can't really be bothered going into too much detail as it's mentally exhausting (feels like I'm always talking about this to someone lol) and I have a complicated personal relationship to the country (for the record I lived there 3 years total which pales in comparison to Parksey who I think married a Japanese lady and is living there now!).

However on the attitudes to women - they would be expected to pour all the drinks for the men all the time. Obviously this was true of social occasions but also of the tea throughout the day and water at lunch.

The worst moment I saw was a member of a girl band (maybe AKB 48) shaving her head and crying on live Japanese TV because she was papped leaving a dudes house early in the morning and she wasn't supposed to have a boyfriend to be in the band. Basically I would not want to raise a daughter in Japan.

I think, especially on the politeness front, it's worth remembering that it's not politeness per se that permeates the whole society; politeness is simply the most palatable aspect of what is actually an incredibly rigid and traditional system of social interaction. Sure, you'll probably notice the politeness most as a tourist or only living there for a short time, but when you get deeper into the unspoken social rules and the rigid expectations in work or gender or whatever you see that politeness is really just a nice sheen on an otherwise deeply unhappy system.

There's a moment in the new Shogun show (and probably the old one and the book!) where the white dude rages at the Japanese characters for living behind their poxy traditions and (internal) walls and not caring about things that matter. I just thought "vibes" the whole time as it's a really frustrating country to get to really know as it feels like you can't break through. A lot of people in Japan have been conditioned to largely act the same way, think the same way and feel the same way on huge swathes of issues and it filters down (in my experience) to the average local person feeling a bit... Fake and boring?

One final thought from me, while I was living there I saw this advert on TV. It was for a bread maker. It shows a Japanese lady eating rice for lunch and a foreign, white lady eating bread for lunch (coz white people eat bread innit) and speaking bad Japanese (subtitled in a racist way as it's using katakana for all 3 language types to highlight her foreigness). Can you imagine the reverse over here? Asian lady wanting rice in an office full of white people as an ad and speaking with an exaggerated Asian accent?

Oh and there's just one more problem with it. See if you can spot the problem:

(Kotaku link as I can't find the ad anywhere else ) https://kotaku.com/toshiba-commercial-c ... -606881529

Spoiler if you can't watch the ad (but please do):

[Tomous]

What the strawberry float

[aayl1]

Also last week I mentioned that I'd lived in Japan and someone asked me about anime. I replied I don't really like anime and they said "well why go to Japan then?"

[shy guy 64]

my best friend went to japan on his honeymoon. however the main thing i remember him telling me apart from the pokemon centre is that there were tea vending machines all over.

Japan is absolutely covered in vending machines, it blew my mind how many there were-they just can't all be viable.

my friend seemed more concerned that you get tea out of them

[Tomous]

Also last week I mentioned that I'd lived in Japan and someone asked me about anime. I replied I don't really like anime and they said "well why go to Japan then?"

"To take it down from within "

[site23]

Obviously this is totally unacceptable and would be quite hurtful to anyone white and living in Japan, but I couldn't help but burst out laughing.

Also last week I mentioned that I'd lived in Japan and someone asked me about anime. I replied I don't really like anime and they said "well why go to Japan then?"

Stop exposing our private conversations to the whole forum.

[Moggy]

Can you imagine the reverse over here? Asian lady wanting rice in an office full of white people as an ad and speaking with an exaggerated Asian accent?

I just can't imagine we'd ever make an advert based on national food stereotypes which also contained ridiculous stereotypical accents.

[Tomous]

Mamma mia!

[site23]

That isn't offensive because Italians are really like that.

[RetroCora]

They also have signs on their public transport network asking men not to take upskirt pictures of women, or did in 2016 anyway. Aaron told me last night you can't turn the photo-click sound off on Japanese phones for this reason, and they have safe, women-only cars on their trains. So attitudes to women seem to be pretty grim.

As I also mentioned last night I can't really be bothered going into too much detail as it's mentally exhausting (feels like I'm always talking about this to someone lol) and I have a complicated personal relationship to the country (for the record I lived there 3 years total which pales in comparison to Parksey who I think married a Japanese lady and is living there now!).

However on the attitudes to women - they would be expected to pour all the drinks for the men all the time. Obviously this was true of social occasions but also of the tea throughout the day and water at lunch.

The worst moment I saw was a member of a girl band (maybe AKB 48) shaving her head and crying on live Japanese TV because she was papped leaving a dudes house early in the morning and she wasn't supposed to have a boyfriend to be in the band. Basically I would not want to raise a daughter in Japan.

I think, especially on the politeness front, it's worth remembering that it's not politeness per se that permeates the whole society; politeness is simply the most palatable aspect of what is actually an incredibly rigid and traditional system of social interaction. Sure, you'll probably notice the politeness most as a tourist or only living there for a short time, but when you get deeper into the unspoken social rules and the rigid expectations in work or gender or whatever you see that politeness is really just a nice sheen on an otherwise deeply unhappy system.

There's a moment in the new Shogun show (and probably the old one and the book!) where the white dude rages at the Japanese characters for living behind their poxy traditions and (internal) walls and not caring about things that matter. I just thought "vibes" the whole time as it's a really frustrating country to get to really know as it feels like you can't break through. A lot of people in Japan have been conditioned to largely act the same way, think the same way and feel the same way on huge swathes of issues and it filters down (in my experience) to the average local person feeling a bit... Fake and boring?

One final thought from me, while I was living there I saw this advert on TV. It was for a bread maker. It shows a Japanese lady eating rice for lunch and a foreign, white lady eating bread for lunch (coz white people eat bread innit) and speaking bad Japanese (subtitled in a racist way as it's using katakana for all 3 language types to highlight her foreigness). Can you imagine the reverse over here? Asian lady wanting rice in an office full of white people as an ad and speaking with an exaggerated Asian accent?

Oh and there's just one more problem with it. See if you can spot the problem:

(Kotaku link as I can't find the ad anywhere else ) https://kotaku.com/toshiba-commercial-c ... -606881529

Spoiler if you can't watch the ad (but please do):

Yeah sorry man, didn't mean to drag you into the conversation! Was just that it was something that clicked with what I've seen there when I was over as well.

[Moggy]

That isn't offensive because Italians are really like that.

And British people don't love eating bread while wearing fake noses?