The Football Thread 2023/24: Dortmund vs Real Madrid, Sat 8pm

[Curls]

Any spurs fan who wants city to win to spite Arsenal is ludicrous.

That's odd because you are the exact type of liverpool fan that I would expect would rather your side lost than United win the league.

Obviously I have that wrong so I guess we learn something every day.

I actually don't dislike United as much as most, I still dislike them don't get me wrong, but not as much as some.

I find bitter rivalries somewhat funny, all fun and games in a sporting sense, but when it boils down to the fans, its the same people hating people who are the same as them.
For a bit of teasing in the pub over a pint, sure why not but thats as far as it needs to go.

That said, I still do hate man city. But i dont hate their fans. Usually if I meet a fan of a team and we get along it makes me like that team a teeeeeeeeny bit more.

[Albert]

Season hasn't even finished and they're already unveiling next year's kit - fans really are just cows to milk aren't they?

You will shut up and be milked...and you will enjoy it.

And we might need a 4th kit next season... due to a new rule or something, we haven't decided yet, so let's see how that goes.

and if we do...you will shut up and be milked...and you will enjoy it.

[Albert]

Any spurs fan who wants city to win to spite Arsenal is ludicrous.

That's odd because you are the exact type of liverpool fan that I would expect would rather your side lost than United win the league.

Obviously I have that wrong so I guess we learn something every day.

I actually don't dislike United as much as most, I still dislike them don't get me wrong, but not as much as some.

I find bitter rivalries somewhat funny, all fun and games in a sporting sense, but when it boils down to the fans, its the same people hating people who are the same as them.
For a bit of teasing in the pub over a pint, sure why not but thats as far as it needs to go.

That said, I still do hate man city. But i dont hate their fans. Usually if I meet a fan of a team and we get along it makes me like that team a teeeeeeeeny bit more.

Ah bud, it wasn't a critisism. Just a view/opinion. No offence intended.

However, I would bet my mortgage that if Man U were constantly finishing above Liverpool, and winning more, your view point would be different.

It's really easy for fans to act pious when they are in a position of superiority, that's just human behaviour.

I still remember the reports of Arsenal fans wishing they lost a cup or something if it meant Spurs wouldn't win the CL. Not judging, I had to turn off the game on Tuesday as was wanting City to win and it made me uncomfortable, but I do laugh that fans of other clubs pretending this is a new thing or soley something only Spurs fans would do, which let's be honest, is a load of bollocks.

Also Ange, as much as I love him, he is wrong. He hasn't lived the rivalry and doesn't get to judge fans who have been through it for the past 10, 20, 30, 40 + years.

Some Spurs fans wanting their team to lose has zero bearing on the clubs winning mentality. I tell you what will though, winning against clubs like Fulham and rectifiying the numerous poor performances over the season.

Interestingly it seems to be a generation thing. My dad and older brother wanted a Spurs win no matter the Arsenal angle, I wanted a Spurs loss, my nephews wanted a Spurs loss and Ange out (they are mental).

[Curls]

Any spurs fan who wants city to win to spite Arsenal is ludicrous.

That's odd because you are the exact type of liverpool fan that I would expect would rather your side lost than United win the league.

Obviously I have that wrong so I guess we learn something every day.

I actually don't dislike United as much as most, I still dislike them don't get me wrong, but not as much as some.

I find bitter rivalries somewhat funny, all fun and games in a sporting sense, but when it boils down to the fans, its the same people hating people who are the same as them.
For a bit of teasing in the pub over a pint, sure why not but thats as far as it needs to go.

That said, I still do hate man city. But i dont hate their fans. Usually if I meet a fan of a team and we get along it makes me like that team a teeeeeeeeny bit more.

Also I almost had a 'Brian from traitors' type breakdown to that post and was ready with a really offended reading between the lines come back, but strawberry float it, I can't be arsed and it's not worth my time and energy.
I'm much more pleasant and nice to be around than that if that's what my posting on here has made you think of me. I sometimes just type a bit quicker than I should and need to do a bit of digging out of holes, when something is misinterpreted to how I intended it to be read.

Edit: Hadn't read the post above, haha, no brian breakdown necessary today.

[Albert]

[DML]

What the strawberry float is all this being nice?

GET INTO 'IM GET INTO 'IM GET INTO IM

[Albert]

Any spurs fan who wants city to win to spite Arsenal is ludicrous.

That's odd because you are the exact type of liverpool fan that I would expect would rather your side lost than United win the league.

Obviously I have that wrong so I guess we learn something every day.

I actually don't dislike United as much as most, I still dislike them don't get me wrong, but not as much as some.

I find bitter rivalries somewhat funny, all fun and games in a sporting sense, but when it boils down to the fans, its the same people hating people who are the same as them.
For a bit of teasing in the pub over a pint, sure why not but thats as far as it needs to go.

That said, I still do hate man city. But i dont hate their fans. Usually if I meet a fan of a team and we get along it makes me like that team a teeeeeeeeny bit more.

Also I almost had a 'Brian from traitors' type breakdown to that post and was ready with a really offended reading between the lines come back, but strawberry float it, I can't be arsed and it's not worth my time and energy.
I'm much more pleasant and nice to be around than that if that's what my posting on here has made you think of me. I sometimes just type a bit quicker than I should and need to do a bit of digging out of holes, when something is misinterpreted to how I intended it to be read.

Edit: Hadn't read the post above, haha, no brian breakdown necessary today.

I’ll strawberry floating cut you, you slag.

[Curls]

Oh Matron

[Moggy]

[RetroCora]

twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1791030837854781578

If these are the reasons not much to stand on.

1 - Offsides were always like this pre-VAR. Certainly does affect the stadium though but wouldn't it be better for decisions to be correct?

2 - Solved by showing the footage on screens or having the official broadcast over the PA. Aussies have started doing the latter.

3 - No different from chanting against the referees getting it wrong or the protests against the league before.

4 - Again, fixable. Doesn't help that it often has the same inconsistent decision making that we've seen pre-VAR.

5 - Refs need to have more accountability. But it's not helped by players being utter arseholes to them (I.e. surrounding them or being Bruno Fernandes). Managers and pundits also contribute to the erosion of authority.

6 - Continued errors have been a problem. Would be interesting to see some independent stats of decisions that have been corrected though. But pre-VAR had the same issue anyway.

7 - Added time wasn't too bad before this season and the new procedures to minimise time wasting. Again can solve things here by changing procedures.

8 - Again, constant discourse happened before VAR.

9 - Weird one here, but again, corruption claims have been going on for ages before VAR. Drogba after THAT Champions League game anyone?

I agree with this and think your suggestions are sensible. It's interesting to see quite a nuanced view towards VAR on here and a general desire to acknowledge the very real issues without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You never see that sort of view in the media - it's always some dinosaur ex-pro saying "i'M a TrAdItIoNaLiSt Me!"

I remember being so, so angry about decisions before VAR came in. People are acting like there was a perfect system which VAR stamped all over, when in actual fact the standard of officiating was quite often terrible. Look at the Championship - there's terrible decisions there every week according to the fans in here that follow it and, shock horror, no VAR! DML mentioned the quality of EFL refs just the other week. It's almost as if the problem is the individuals doing the refereeing and not any system they do or don't use! I'm well aware I've got some pretty outspoken views about refereeing which a lot of people may take issue with, but every time this comes up nobody addresses the PGMOL shaped elephant in the room - they just want to throw out the DEMON TECHNOLOGY on principle. It's all calcifying, populist nonsense that is designed to stop people from being open to new ideas.

One other thing that annoys me about the debate is the pedestal on which we place "fans in the ground", like they're somehow better than fans who have to watch on TV. I'm really happy that someone might live around the corner from their club and can walk to the turnstile every fortnight and get a ticket - enjoy it! I'm not that fortunate. I grew up walking distance from Highbury (stealth edit: I obviously used to get the bus because I'm lazy, but I could walk if I had to...), and used to go when I could. I think it held about 60k+ as a terrace, but after going all seater was 38k. This was not enough for a club of Arsenal's size/quality/popularity in the mid-late 90s so I didn't go nearly as much as I would've liked. I then moved 200 miles away, adding an extra layer of complexity, and now there are ballots for all the games I don't even know if I can get a ticket full stop before I even think about travel! Going to games is difficult for me despite really wanting to, yet you get people saying I should belt up and accept terrible decisions because someone who is in the ground wants to have a good time?! I'm willing to bet that these people are exactly the ones who rail against football being a "pantomime", whilst advocating for poorer quality sport as long as it keeps the audience happy

On the referee point, be very glad you have professional referees in England - however bad things may be in England, at least an RE teacher from Motherwell hasn't just been named the head of your country's refereeing system.

[more heat than light]

twitter.com/Arsenal/status/1791013275716489587

All three Arsenal kits look good for next year. They've had some really nice shirts recently.

[Dowbocop]

twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1791030837854781578

If these are the reasons not much to stand on.

1 - Offsides were always like this pre-VAR. Certainly does affect the stadium though but wouldn't it be better for decisions to be correct?

2 - Solved by showing the footage on screens or having the official broadcast over the PA. Aussies have started doing the latter.

3 - No different from chanting against the referees getting it wrong or the protests against the league before.

4 - Again, fixable. Doesn't help that it often has the same inconsistent decision making that we've seen pre-VAR.

5 - Refs need to have more accountability. But it's not helped by players being utter arseholes to them (I.e. surrounding them or being Bruno Fernandes). Managers and pundits also contribute to the erosion of authority.

6 - Continued errors have been a problem. Would be interesting to see some independent stats of decisions that have been corrected though. But pre-VAR had the same issue anyway.

7 - Added time wasn't too bad before this season and the new procedures to minimise time wasting. Again can solve things here by changing procedures.

8 - Again, constant discourse happened before VAR.

9 - Weird one here, but again, corruption claims have been going on for ages before VAR. Drogba after THAT Champions League game anyone?

I agree with this and think your suggestions are sensible. It's interesting to see quite a nuanced view towards VAR on here and a general desire to acknowledge the very real issues without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You never see that sort of view in the media - it's always some dinosaur ex-pro saying "i'M a TrAdItIoNaLiSt Me!"

I remember being so, so angry about decisions before VAR came in. People are acting like there was a perfect system which VAR stamped all over, when in actual fact the standard of officiating was quite often terrible. Look at the Championship - there's terrible decisions there every week according to the fans in here that follow it and, shock horror, no VAR! DML mentioned the quality of EFL refs just the other week. It's almost as if the problem is the individuals doing the refereeing and not any system they do or don't use! I'm well aware I've got some pretty outspoken views about refereeing which a lot of people may take issue with, but every time this comes up nobody addresses the PGMOL shaped elephant in the room - they just want to throw out the DEMON TECHNOLOGY on principle. It's all calcifying, populist nonsense that is designed to stop people from being open to new ideas.

One other thing that annoys me about the debate is the pedestal on which we place "fans in the ground", like they're somehow better than fans who have to watch on TV. I'm really happy that someone might live around the corner from their club and can walk to the turnstile every fortnight and get a ticket - enjoy it! I'm not that fortunate. I grew up walking distance from Highbury (stealth edit: I obviously used to get the bus because I'm lazy, but I could walk if I had to...), and used to go when I could. I think it held about 60k+ as a terrace, but after going all seater was 38k. This was not enough for a club of Arsenal's size/quality/popularity in the mid-late 90s so I didn't go nearly as much as I would've liked. I then moved 200 miles away, adding an extra layer of complexity, and now there are ballots for all the games I don't even know if I can get a ticket full stop before I even think about travel! Going to games is difficult for me despite really wanting to, yet you get people saying I should belt up and accept terrible decisions because someone who is in the ground wants to have a good time?! I'm willing to bet that these people are exactly the ones who rail against football being a "pantomime", whilst advocating for poorer quality sport as long as it keeps the audience happy

On the referee point, be very glad you have professional referees in England - however bad things may be in England, at least an RE teacher from Motherwell hasn't just been named the head of your country's refereeing system.

How dare you, he's a man of God

[Oblomov Boblomov]

Competition, rivalry and hatred are inevitable in the world, and the one place they can, in my opinion, exist is in sport. Obviously, I'm assuming they manifest behind a very strict wall, on the other side of which is actual violence, bullying, persecution, etc. But I think there has to be jeering, mocking, piss-taking, 'us against them', passion, a desire to succeed at the expense of others, etc etc. It's all part of it and what makes it so good. There's no value in winning if you don't appreciate the cost of losing. The problems occur when it crosses the boundary that should exist between sport actually mattering/having a material impact on your life.

Also, VAR is gooseberry fool. There's a huge, huge difference between glancing at the lino immediately after a goal has been scored, and waiting five minutes for someone behind the scenes to draw lines on a screen. Bad decisions are also gooseberry fool, but I'd much rather 'hate' the ref for a few seconds, forget his name after full-time and have a whinge about how we obviously would have won if it wasn't for that bullshit penalty, than suck the joy out of the game in the way VAR does. Luckily for me, I don't even really have to worry about it but I think it's bad enough even when I'm watching games as a neutral.

[Moggy]

Competition, rivalry and hatred are inevitable in the world, and the one place they can, in my opinion, exist is in sport. Obviously, I'm assuming they manifest behind a very strict wall, on the other side of which is actual violence, bullying, persecution, etc. But I think there has to be jeering, mocking, piss-taking, 'us against them', passion, a desire to succeed at the expense of others, etc etc. It's all part of it and what makes it so good. There's no value in winning if you don't appreciate the cost of losing. The problems occur when it crosses the boundary that should exist between sport actually mattering/having a material impact on your life.

Oblomov on an away day:

[Ecno]

Glad I didn't go last night. At least it gives me another season to finish the championship grounds I haven't done.

Think Wagner needs to go (as well as some of our players), Stuart Webber salted the earth on his way out, by giving out a bunch of multi-year contracts to old declining players. We've got some exciting young players coming back from loan, we're all very excited to see Abu Kamara, and hopefully there's room for one of the Young CBs we've had out on loan at Accrington to come back in.

[Tomous]

Think Wagner needs to go (as well as some of our players)

Given he went literally minutes after your post, I'm curious on what power you yield.

[Rex Kramer]

Think Wagner needs to go (as well as some of our players)

Given he went literally minutes after your post, I'm curious on what power you yield.

Ecno is Delia Smith??

[Tomous]

Eco can we hear you say LET'S BE 'AVING YOU

[RetroCora]

twitter.com/SkySportsPL/status/1791030837854781578

If these are the reasons not much to stand on.

1 - Offsides were always like this pre-VAR. Certainly does affect the stadium though but wouldn't it be better for decisions to be correct?

2 - Solved by showing the footage on screens or having the official broadcast over the PA. Aussies have started doing the latter.

3 - No different from chanting against the referees getting it wrong or the protests against the league before.

4 - Again, fixable. Doesn't help that it often has the same inconsistent decision making that we've seen pre-VAR.

5 - Refs need to have more accountability. But it's not helped by players being utter arseholes to them (I.e. surrounding them or being Bruno Fernandes). Managers and pundits also contribute to the erosion of authority.

6 - Continued errors have been a problem. Would be interesting to see some independent stats of decisions that have been corrected though. But pre-VAR had the same issue anyway.

7 - Added time wasn't too bad before this season and the new procedures to minimise time wasting. Again can solve things here by changing procedures.

8 - Again, constant discourse happened before VAR.

9 - Weird one here, but again, corruption claims have been going on for ages before VAR. Drogba after THAT Champions League game anyone?

I agree with this and think your suggestions are sensible. It's interesting to see quite a nuanced view towards VAR on here and a general desire to acknowledge the very real issues without throwing the baby out with the bathwater. You never see that sort of view in the media - it's always some dinosaur ex-pro saying "i'M a TrAdItIoNaLiSt Me!"

I remember being so, so angry about decisions before VAR came in. People are acting like there was a perfect system which VAR stamped all over, when in actual fact the standard of officiating was quite often terrible. Look at the Championship - there's terrible decisions there every week according to the fans in here that follow it and, shock horror, no VAR! DML mentioned the quality of EFL refs just the other week. It's almost as if the problem is the individuals doing the refereeing and not any system they do or don't use! I'm well aware I've got some pretty outspoken views about refereeing which a lot of people may take issue with, but every time this comes up nobody addresses the PGMOL shaped elephant in the room - they just want to throw out the DEMON TECHNOLOGY on principle. It's all calcifying, populist nonsense that is designed to stop people from being open to new ideas.

One other thing that annoys me about the debate is the pedestal on which we place "fans in the ground", like they're somehow better than fans who have to watch on TV. I'm really happy that someone might live around the corner from their club and can walk to the turnstile every fortnight and get a ticket - enjoy it! I'm not that fortunate. I grew up walking distance from Highbury (stealth edit: I obviously used to get the bus because I'm lazy, but I could walk if I had to...), and used to go when I could. I think it held about 60k+ as a terrace, but after going all seater was 38k. This was not enough for a club of Arsenal's size/quality/popularity in the mid-late 90s so I didn't go nearly as much as I would've liked. I then moved 200 miles away, adding an extra layer of complexity, and now there are ballots for all the games I don't even know if I can get a ticket full stop before I even think about travel! Going to games is difficult for me despite really wanting to, yet you get people saying I should belt up and accept terrible decisions because someone who is in the ground wants to have a good time?! I'm willing to bet that these people are exactly the ones who rail against football being a "pantomime", whilst advocating for poorer quality sport as long as it keeps the audience happy

On the referee point, be very glad you have professional referees in England - however bad things may be in England, at least an RE teacher from Motherwell hasn't just been named the head of your country's refereeing system.

How dare you, he's a man of God

That is genuinely the problem

A guy got booted off our football phone in show last week for phoning up and calling him a cheat because Celtic usually win when he referees them.

[Preezy]

Barcelona are considering sacking head coach Xavi.

The 44-year-old had announced in January that he would step down at the end of the season, but was persuaded to stay by club president Joan Laporta.

However, comments by Xavi in a recent news conference appear to have angered the club's board, who now feel the former Spain midfielder should depart.

Barcelona B team manager Rafael Marquez is favourite to take over as manager.

Before Thursday's away win at Almeria, Xavi suggested it would be difficult to compete financially with rivals Real Madrid and other top teams in Europe.

"I think that Barca fans need to understand that the situation is really difficult, especially economically, to compete with Real Madrid in Spain and others in Europe," he said., external

"We will adapt to this. It doesn't mean that we don't want to fight to compete and fight for trophies. It is the situation for Barcelona at this time. We need stability and time."

You do the hokey pokey and you turn around...

Absolute basket case of a club