Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'

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Rightey
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PostSaudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Rightey » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:56 pm

http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/saudi-a ... -1.4776502

So for those who don't know, Saudi Arabia is throwing a hissy fit because the government of Canada called for the release of some women's rights protesters who had been jailed as they were demanding women get, among other things, the right to drive, which was actually recently granted to them but apparently protesting something was still bad enough that they threw them in jail.

They've kicked out the Canadian ambassador, and have told all their students to leave the country, and that none of their citizens who are here should seek medical attention from our health care system ( :toot: shorter wait times), and have also cancelled all pending trade deals.

I was pretty surprised as in the original story about this that I saw on the news, they mentioned we've been getting basically no support from other Western countries, and the US and UK have both basically said they're staying out of it. :fp:

Personally I think we just need to double down and stop doing business with them all together. I don't understand why we, as an oil producing nation need to be lining the pockets of what may well be the worst government in the world.

Here's a story that has a summary of everything...

Saudi Arabia's diplomatic retaliation against Canada is likely the result of a combination of factors, analysts say, including Riyadh's thin skin, its frustration with Ottawa, and its Crown prince's penchant for a muscle-flexing foreign policy that seeks to make one thing clear: Criticism won't be tolerated.

In fact, the latter is why one analyst who spoke with CBC News says a "grovelling" public apology from Canada is likely the only way to resolve the dispute.

The political dust-up began Friday after Canada's Foreign Affairs Department sent out a tweet saying it was "gravely concerned" about the arrest of political activists in Saudi Arabia and urging Riyadh to immediately release women's rights activist Samar Badawi and others.

Saudi Arabia pulls its medical patients from Canadian hospitals

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Saudi Arabia responded with what foreign policy analyst Daniel Drezner of Tufts University in Massachusetts​ called "the oddest sanctions effort" he's seen in a long time. It includes:

The expulsion of Canada's ambassador.
A freeze on "all new trade and investment transactions" between the two countries.
The suspension of all Saudi flights to and from Toronto.
An order for Saudi students to leave Canadian schools.
Plans to transfer all Saudi nationals receiving medical treatment in Canada to hospitals outside the country.

'Allergic to criticism'

For several years now, Saudi Arabia has responded with swift diplomatic action in the face of human rights critiques, said ​Rex Brynen, a political science professor at McGill University who specializes in Middle East politics.

"We've seen it before when they've been criticized by the Swedes and the Germans — often very mild criticism — that they've reacted quite harshly," he said. "So it's partly Saudi Arabia I think being allergic to criticism."
Activist Samar Badawi, seen here with former U.S. secretary of state Hillary Clinton, right, and former first lady Michelle Obama, left, in 2012, was arrested in Saudi Arabia. (Gary Cameron/Reuters)

In 2015, the Saudi government recalled its ambassador to Sweden after that country's foreign minister criticized the flogging of jailed blogger Raif Badawi, who is the brother of Samar. And last year, Saudi Arabia recalled its ambassador from Germany after its foreign minister made remarks considered to be a critique of Saudi military intervention in Yemen.

The Saudi government may also have an underlying source of frustration with Ottawa, namely the controversial $15-billion sale of light-armoured vehicles to Riyadh.

The deal, which faced some criticism in Canada, as it involved supplying weapons to a country with a notorious human rights record, was made by the Stephen Harper government and later finalized by Justin Trudeau.

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Saudi Arabia viewed the LAV deal really as an investment to deepen ties with Canada, including on trade, science and academics, and security and defence co-operation, said Thomas Juneau, assistant professor at the University of Ottawa's Graduate School of Public and International Affairs.

"But that didn't happen, mostly because the Liberals really didn't want to be seen as deepening co-operation with such a brutal dictatorship," Juneau told the CBC Radio's As It Happens. "That really frustrated the Saudis a lot and we just saw that boil over."
Isn't so much about Canada

But the University of Waterloo's Bessma Momani suspects Saudi Arabia's sanctions actually have more to do with Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman's penchant for brash foreign policy moves.

"This is really a reflection of his style. It's got the footprints of his modus operandi all over it. The very severe type of action," the political science professor told CBC's Ottawa Morning.

She pointed to the severing of diplomatic ties with Qatar, after alleging it has ties to extremists and is too close to Iran, as one example of Salman's "quasi-irrational-type moves." Another example was forcing Lebanese Prime Minister Saad Hariri to publicly resign during a trip to Saudi Arabia last year — a resignation he later rescinded.

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Certainly, under King Salman and his son, the crown prince, "Riyadh has turned away from its traditionally cautious and timid foreign policy toward a far more assertive, ambitious, hyper-nationalist and often impulsive preference for throwing Saudi weight around," Juneau wrote in the Washington Post.
Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland made it clear Canada won't back down from its critical stance against Saudi Arabia's human rights record. (Patrick Doyle/Canadian Press)

And it's also clear, according to Brynen, the Saudis have decided to make an example of Canada.

"They're saying to everyone else in the international community, 'You really don't want to criticize us because look what happened to the Canadians when they did it,'" Brynen said.

On Monday, Foreign Affairs Minister Chrystia Freeland made it clear Canada won't back down from its critical stance against Saudi Arabia's human rights record.

"We are always going to speak up for human rights. We're always going to speak up for women's rights. And that is not going to change," she told a news conference.

Juneau points out in the Post that trade between the two countries amounts to about $3 billion to $4 billion a year — about the amount of Canada-U.S. trade in two days — meaning the sanctions are unlikely to have a significant impact.

But if Canada is looking for some diplomatic peace, nothing short of a public apology will resolve the dispute, Brynen said.

"They want to make an example of us and therefore we would have to do an awful lot of grovelling and apologizing, I think, to get the Saudis to end it," he said.

Saudi Arabia's spat with Canada not the first for a Western country​
Saudi Arabia sanctions Canada over comments about imprisoned activists

From the Saudis' point of view, if these moves are partially to send a broader lesson to the international community, it only makes sense for them to publicly humiliate Canada in exchange for getting back in their good graces, he said.

"Wouldn't make sense for them to do this and then we have some nicely worded joint diplomatic statement that resolves the problem. We have to look like we're climbing down."

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Moggy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 8:57 pm

It’s shocking that Saudi Arabia are acting like banana splits. They are normally so nice.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by BID0 » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:10 pm

There’s a movement this week on Avaaz to apply pressure on other governments to back Canada’s position

Unfortunately the UK and US make an obscene amount of money for Saudi Arabia even though it makes us a huge target for terrorism and all of the associated costs and problems that causes :fp: whenever I’ve written to my MP about it I’ve either been ignored or been fobbed off with some empty platitude

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Ecno » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:16 pm

Stay strong Canada.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Preezy » Sat Aug 11, 2018 9:29 pm

Ultra conservative Islamic country in bring banana splits shocker

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sat Aug 11, 2018 11:32 pm

The Canadian government should just start trolling Saudi Arabia on twitter. They don’t need anything from the Saudi’s, just write them off and have fun with their tiny brains.

I also assume that next time WWE go there aside from not being able to take any women they also won’t be able to take any Canadian wrestlers :lol:

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Corazon de Leon » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:13 am

Canada are doing the right thing standing by their principles.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Lagamorph » Sun Aug 12, 2018 12:24 am

Saudi Arabia needs to relax, eh

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Vermilion » Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:38 am

They should send Terrance and Phillip to Riyadh as 'special' ambassadors.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:54 am

It’s a shame it’s august. If it was South Park production season then I could imagine them doing a great piss take on this.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Ad7 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:24 am

OMFG stay safe Canada

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Rightey » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:47 pm

Corazon de Leon wrote:Canada are doing the right thing standing by their principles.


The problem is we are still buying their oil, which they are still selling to us, and I'm sure they are still buying loads of weapons and the likes from us.

This is a coubtry that literally still crucifies people. Wtf are we doing, and I mean the whole Western world not just Canada. Renewable energy can't come soon enough, then hopefully we'll never have to deal with this pathetic country ever again.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Moggy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 2:56 pm

Rightey wrote:
Corazon de Leon wrote:Canada are doing the right thing standing by their principles.


The problem is we are still buying their oil, which they are still selling to us, and I'm sure they are still buying loads of weapons and the likes from us.

This is a coubtry that literally still crucifies people. Wtf are we doing, and I mean the whole Western world not just Canada. Renewable energy can't come soon enough, then hopefully we'll never have to deal with this pathetic country ever again.


I thought it sounded like bollocks that they still crucified people. It is, but it’s still horrific. :dread:

Even as it excoriated Canada for scolding it over human rights, Saudi Arabia beheaded a man Wednesday in Mecca, then put his body on public display, for allegedly stabbing a woman to death.

The method of punishment is known in Saudi Arabia as a crucifixion, which the government says is sanctioned by Islamic law, and is reserved for only the most severe crimes in the kingdom.

...

“Pictures emerged on social media appearing to show five decapitated bodies hanging from a horizontal pole with their heads wrapped in bags,” Amnesty International said in a statement at the time. “In Saudi Arabia, the practice of ‘crucifixion’ refers to the court-ordered public display of the body after execution, along with the separated head if beheaded. It takes place in a public square to allegedly act as a deterrent.”

https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... on/567128/


I get that we need the money, but strawberry float me we really all ought to make Saudi Arabia an international pariah.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by <]:^D » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:06 pm

the worst thing about Saudi Arabia is the hypocrisy

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Errkal » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:54 pm

Rightey wrote:Renewable energy can't come soon enough, then hopefully we'll never have to deal with this pathetic country ever again.


The issue with green at least in the UK is there is only 1 energy market no green and non green so as green get used more and is cheaper to make non green gets more expensive driving the whole sale price up for all.

Green needs splitting out so providers buy green energy at its own market value and there will then be proper movement, but the whole time the two and lumped together is slows adoption and drives up prices for all.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Preezy » Sun Aug 12, 2018 8:59 pm

<]:^D wrote:the worst thing about Saudi Arabia is the hypocrisy

Well, that and the heat. My uncle lives in Riyadh and he regularly shares pictures of his dashboard showing 50°c. Mental.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Darkstalker90 » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:07 pm

Errkal wrote:
Rightey wrote:Renewable energy can't come soon enough, then hopefully we'll never have to deal with this pathetic country ever again.


The issue with green at least in the UK is there is only 1 energy market no green and non green so as green get used more and is cheaper to make non green gets more expensive driving the whole sale price up for all.

Green needs splitting out so providers buy green energy at its own market value and there will then be proper movement, but the whole time the two and lumped together is slows adoption and drives up prices for all.


Exactly. There is no benefit to the consumer and people will consider that over environmental concerns because that's just how we are as humans.

Some electric companies advertise renewable, green energy but it doesn't save the customer any money and it's actually a massive joke to advertise it as such since it all goes into the national grid along with energy produced from non-renewable sources. You can't choose to buy the green "parts" of the electric supply...

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Errkal » Sun Aug 12, 2018 9:10 pm

Darkstalker90 wrote:
Errkal wrote:
Rightey wrote:Renewable energy can't come soon enough, then hopefully we'll never have to deal with this pathetic country ever again.


The issue with green at least in the UK is there is only 1 energy market no green and non green so as green get used more and is cheaper to make non green gets more expensive driving the whole sale price up for all.

Green needs splitting out so providers buy green energy at its own market value and there will then be proper movement, but the whole time the two and lumped together is slows adoption and drives up prices for all.


Exactly. There is no benefit to the consumer and people will consider that over environmental concerns because that's just how we are as humans.

Some electric companies advertise renewable, green energy but it doesn't save the customer any money and it's actually a massive joke to advertise it as such since it all goes into the national grid along with energy produced from non-renewable sources. You can't choose to buy the green "parts" of the electric supply...



The supplies can buy green only which is added to the grid it does mean more green energy goes in, however its the same price and non green so there isn't a saving as its costs the same per unit.

You don't get only the green electrons but if you are on a green only plan then for every unit used that unit going in is a green one. It just sucks that the unit costs less to generate than the dirty units but as agl green user we have to subsidies the other suppliers by over paying.

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Darkstalker90 » Mon Aug 13, 2018 3:52 pm

Errkal wrote:
The supplies can buy green only which is added to the grid it does mean more green energy goes in, however its the same price and non green so there isn't a saving as its costs the same per unit.

You don't get only the green electrons but if you are on a green only plan then for every unit used that unit going in is a green one. It just sucks that the unit costs less to generate than the dirty units but as agl green user we have to subsidies the other suppliers by over paying.


It does all rely on the fact that you can believe what the suppliers say/claim though because unless you actually work for them, then they could be saying anything. A bit cynical I suppose but less surprising things have happened!

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PostRe: Saudi Arabia 'allergic to criticism'
by Errkal » Mon Aug 13, 2018 4:19 pm

Darkstalker90 wrote:
Errkal wrote:
The supplies can buy green only which is added to the grid it does mean more green energy goes in, however its the same price and non green so there isn't a saving as its costs the same per unit.

You don't get only the green electrons but if you are on a green only plan then for every unit used that unit going in is a green one. It just sucks that the unit costs less to generate than the dirty units but as agl green user we have to subsidies the other suppliers by over paying.


It does all rely on the fact that you can believe what the suppliers say/claim though because unless you actually work for them, then they could be saying anything. A bit cynical I suppose but less surprising things have happened!


It does to a point, however , wouldn't it fall under trade descriptions or something so if they aren't buying 100% green wholesale but selling it as that they would be in breach ?


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