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Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Wed May 29, 2019 11:34 pm
by Karl_
It is a fact that multiple users have left - and several more have taken breaks - because of the intensity of politics discussions on this forum. Politics is increasingly polarised in the real world, and some of our users (including myself) are very engaged and outspoken. Others want to use this forum - which is, after all, supposed to be about our hobbies, primarily videogames - as an escape from real-world nastiness. There is an inevitable tension to that, and I don't personally feel either side is wrong.

I think we should add Politics and NSFW labels to be used to tag threads. Furthermore, we should add two per-user profile options: Display Politics threads? Y/N and Display NSFW threads? Y/N.

All users: Would this be helpful?

Technically-minded users: Is anyone up for helping me implement this? It mostly requires grappling with the absolutely terrible PhpBB documentation, I think, assuming we stay with PhpBB (we don't necessarily have to).

This is a technical solution to a social problem. Ultimately, we also need to discuss and then clarify our stance on civility. This is mostly an internal moderation issue, but I feel this thread will be used to discuss it no matter what I say here, so, uh, go ahead.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 1:18 am
by Pedz
I think that's be a great idea. The only issue is people bringing politics into threads where people are just chatting about gameplay. I really wouldn't know how to go about sorting that other than "*game name* polictal chat" thread.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 10:05 am
by OrangeRKN
I think it's an idea worth trialing

As Pedz says what this doesn't address is political discussion in non-dedicated threads, so the possibility for tension remains there.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Thu May 30, 2019 6:10 pm
by Drumstick
I'm pro-choice so I think these are good ideas.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 11:14 am
by False
y

but dont tell us off for posting nsfw stuff in nsfw threads

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 12:10 pm
by Karl_
False wrote:but dont tell us off for posting nsfw stuff in nsfw threads

Ha!

As you know, my personal preference would be for no NSFW content on GRcade at all. I was overruled on this when I was more involved in being a mod/admin, so part of the motivation of adding this for me would be so I can just turn it off and pretend it's not here.

It'll be someone else's problem to define what can and can't be posted in those threads, thankfully.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 2:08 pm
by Johnny Ryall
Karl_ wrote:
False wrote:but dont tell us off for posting nsfw stuff in nsfw threads

Ha!

As you know, my personal preference would be for no NSFW content on GRcade at all. I was overruled on this when I was more involved in being a mod/admin, so part of the motivation of adding this for me would be so I can just turn it off and pretend it's not here.

It'll be someone else's problem to define what can and can't be posted in those threads, thankfully.


I think it's a fair preference for you to have when a lot of corporate firewalls won't care about nsfw tags and will just mark a website for 18+ nudity reputation at the first match of it.

Not that I browse here or any forums on work LANs, I don't want them to be able to peep on me haha. But filter reputation is a valid consideration if we start getting flagged as a nudey site by the big boy firewalls.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:30 pm
by jawafour
I like the idea of tags / hide options for politics and NSFW threads.

Karl_ wrote:...It'll be someone else's problem to define what can and can't be posted in those threads, thankfully.

I guess that the actual forum rules won't change, though i.e. we wouldn't allow porn even if it was tagged as NSFW? I believe that "upper body" posts are currently allowed and do appear in some threads marked NSFW. I wouldn't support the idea of "stronger" porn being allowed because of the new approach.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:51 pm
by Karl_
jawafour wrote:
Karl_ wrote:...It'll be someone else's problem to define what can and can't be posted in those threads, thankfully.

I guess that the actual forum rules won't change, though i.e. we wouldn't allow porn even if it was tagged as NSFW? I believe that "upper body" posts are currently allowed and do appear in some threads marked NSFW. I wouldn't support the idea of "stronger" porn being allowed because of the new approach.

I expect that introducing NSFW tags would require the mods/admins to clarify what kinds of NSFW posts are acceptable. My best guess and sincere hope is that hardcore pornography would be banned still, at a minimum.

The risk with an off-by-default NSFW tag is that it turns into a kind of hidden forum for posting grot. I would feel pretty uncomfortable with growing a softcore porn subcommunity here; in fact I feel uncomfortable with the one or two threads we have on the matter now.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 3:53 pm
by OrangeRKN
Would the "draw a face on kirby" thread be tagged as NSFW?

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:02 pm
by Karl_
OrangeRKN wrote:Would the "draw a face on kirby" thread be tagged as NSFW?

It was a SFW thread that was immediately flooded with very borderline submissions.

A point to remember when trying to set effective policy on this is that GRcade only moderates in the most extreme circumstances. So Rinks should have linked his submission (not embedded) and clearly marked it NSFW. He didn't, and if we stick to our rules he should be looking at a warning for that -- but OTOH it was very funny and everyone likes Rinks, so is anyone gonna do it?

Another thing is that at the moment people use spoiler tags to "hide" NSFW submissions to SFW threads, which is stupid, as the content still loads and could still be flagged / logged. I've tried to explain this before but no-one cares.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Fri May 31, 2019 4:23 pm
by Ironhide
I think NSFW tags are a good idea but I don't think they should ever be a free pass to post overly graphic or sexually themed content, yes the vast majority of us on here are adults but GRcade should be primarily a gaming themed community not a cesspit of depravity (aside from Densters posts that is).

Basically just use common sense when posting more 'matue themed' content.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 6:02 pm
by Gemini73
Pedz wrote:I think that's be a great idea. The only issue is people bringing politics into threads where people are just chatting about gameplay. I really wouldn't know how to go about sorting that other than "*game name* polictal chat" thread.


If a games politics come into the mix within a thread because of x, y & z then generally I feel that's fine as long it doesn't become the central focus. However, it has become an issue on a number of occasions when the politics hijacks the thread, pulling away from any game discussion itself. Too often have game related threads been derailed because of this, not to mention causing upset and bad feeling for all involved.

How to address this? Simple. The GRcade of old would dish out warnings if it felt members were hijacking/derailing threads for their own purpose. Temp bans would also be issued to repeat offenders. Harsh? I don't think so and honestly don't know why a firm hand has been given the back seat in recent years here at GRcade.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 7:02 pm
by Vermilion
Ironhide wrote:a cesspit of depravity


Seen a few message boards like that over the years. ;)

Seriously though, a lot of the real world political wankery does seem to have made itself known here as there has been a growing number of political threads popping up, as a result i've tended to steer clear of it as much as possible as these things do have a habit of getting out of hand (especially when the dreaded b word is involved). I don't see any need to add 'NSFW' to said threads though, as surely those who don't want to get involved in political discussion would leave the threads alone anyways.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 11:54 pm
by Corazon de Leon
Gemini73 wrote:
Pedz wrote:I think that's be a great idea. The only issue is people bringing politics into threads where people are just chatting about gameplay. I really wouldn't know how to go about sorting that other than "*game name* polictal chat" thread.


If a games politics come into the mix within a thread because of x, y & z then generally I feel that's fine as long it doesn't become the central focus. However, it has become an issue on a number of occasions when the politics hijacks the thread, pulling away from any game discussion itself. Too often have game related threads been derailed because of this, not to mention causing upset and bad feeling for all involved.

How to address this? Simple. The GRcade of old would dish out warnings if it felt members were hijacking/derailing threads for their own purpose. Temp bans would also be issued to repeat offenders. Harsh? I don't think so and honestly don't know why a firm hand has been given the back seat in recent years here at GRcade.


In all honesty, there simply isn't the issue that there used to be, beyond one or two members who either don't seem to like the political chat on an almost pathological level, or go in too hard on the political idea to the same degree. Equally, these guys only seem to clash with one another on a regular basis rather than causing running battles across the forum. I don't think anyone has really done enough to warrant a warning or a temporary ban.

The problem is that we live in politically charged times, and ultimately people want to discuss politics regularly. I can understand that, and I don't think that "a firm hand" should be used to quell these potential avenues of discussion because they're important.

Splitting threads when and where it becomes an issue, perhaps, is the answer. Or at least, a decent enough stop-gap until we can decide what the best move is going forward.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 8:53 am
by jawafour
Corazon de Leon wrote:...there simply isn't the issue that there used to be, beyond one or two members who either don't seem to like the political chat on an almost pathological level, or go in too hard on the political idea to the same degree...

I'd suggest that there maybe isn't the amount of issues that there used to be because a few of the people holding differing viewpoints on some political discussions have left the forum; or, they no longer participate in that kind of topic here.

I want to make it clear that I object to the suggestion that "jawa doesn't want politics to be mentioned". Sure, it's a topic that I'm not particularly fond of - personally I get my fill of it in real life and I come to GR to get away from heavy topics - but I am, of course, totally on-board with the idea that (within the rules of the forum) other members can chat about whatever they want to. I even chip in to those topics myself on rare occasions. I'm well aware of the notion "but politics is in everything!" and, yes, this is true, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it has to become the focus for everything.

Rather than the subject, my hackles are sometimes raised by the style of discussion; and this is more about how people speak to each other rather than the content. In my view, the exchanges sometimes go way over the top; things can become pretty heated. You probably expect that with some topics but I just wonder if there could be a way to better manage them. For the "Games" section of GRcade, I like the idea of there being a game thread and - if folk want to go deeper with discussions on the political aspects of that game - there being a politically-focussed thread as well. I wouldn't imagine that many games would require a separate thread; in recent months, I can only think of Cyberpunk and Greedfall where political aspects have been major points of discussion, but there may be more? I would see this as a positive step; personally I think it would bring more focus to aspects of the game rather than hiding them.

Tl;dr I do not want politics to be a banned subject :-) .

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:41 am
by Ad7
Great idea.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:34 pm
by Karl_
There are legitimate reasons to want to disengage from politically-charged or otherwise heated content, and I think we (the user-base) should facilitate that as best we can by adhering to a general principle of "separate threads for each discussion theme". This doesn't need to be prescriptive or even entirely self-consistent; it can probably be sorted out on a case-by-case basis.

The mods are usually happy to split or merge threads or move posts from one thread to another on request via the report function.

I do think that once you make the choice to engage in a spicy thread, you're going to have to accept that it could be a bit rough-and-tumble. No-one should be abused or bullied, but politics has always and will always have an emotional impact on people and that will come across in how they discuss it.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:44 pm
by Cuttooth
Corazon de Leon wrote:
Gemini73 wrote:
Pedz wrote:I think that's be a great idea. The only issue is people bringing politics into threads where people are just chatting about gameplay. I really wouldn't know how to go about sorting that other than "*game name* polictal chat" thread.


If a games politics come into the mix within a thread because of x, y & z then generally I feel that's fine as long it doesn't become the central focus. However, it has become an issue on a number of occasions when the politics hijacks the thread, pulling away from any game discussion itself. Too often have game related threads been derailed because of this, not to mention causing upset and bad feeling for all involved.

How to address this? Simple. The GRcade of old would dish out warnings if it felt members were hijacking/derailing threads for their own purpose. Temp bans would also be issued to repeat offenders. Harsh? I don't think so and honestly don't know why a firm hand has been given the back seat in recent years here at GRcade.


In all honesty, there simply isn't the issue that there used to be, beyond one or two members who either don't seem to like the political chat on an almost pathological level, or go in too hard on the political idea to the same degree. Equally, these guys only seem to clash with one another on a regular basis rather than causing running battles across the forum. I don't think anyone has really done enough to warrant a warning or a temporary ban.

The problem is that we live in politically charged times, and ultimately people want to discuss politics regularly. I can understand that, and I don't think that "a firm hand" should be used to quell these potential avenues of discussion because they're important.

Splitting threads when and where it becomes an issue, perhaps, is the answer. Or at least, a decent enough stop-gap until we can decide what the best move is going forward.


Wholeheartedly agree with this. 'Political' discussion of a topic shouldn't be considered a derailment of that discussion, nor should it be considered a sideshow that shouldn't take centre stage. I appreciate that discussing politics can cause anxiety in people, and I do feel everyone can be less demanding of each other in discussions than they currently are, whether that's when posters sharing political news and views or posters explicitly mocking or deriding those who share that news or opinions.

I don't feel that a direct, singular split of political and non-political posts is a particularly great answer to this issue. Personally I think it would be better to have one thread for a Currently Playing style of post that also includes news like review scores and the general release of a game, and a sister thread that allows for more in depth discussion on all aspects of that game. So you'd be free to discuss the politics of a game's themes and plot, the politics of the games industry and how that specific game was made, but also a more in depth discussion on the game design of the title. Anyone who just wants to have a lighter discussion on where they are in the game, general views etc. then have a space they can do that.

Re: Adding Politics and NSFW tags, and the option to hide those threads

Posted: Mon Sep 16, 2019 7:46 am
by Kezzer
Karl_ wrote:
False wrote:but dont tell us off for posting nsfw stuff in nsfw threads

Ha!

As you know, my personal preference would be for no NSFW content on GRcade at all. I was overruled on this when I was more involved in being a mod/admin, so part of the motivation of adding this for me would be so I can just turn it off and pretend it's not here.

It'll be someone else's problem to define what can and can't be posted in those threads, thankfully.


I only hope he uses his power for good.