GRcade

Jenuall wrote:Are the Tolkien fans getting so frustrated here because of the way these queries are (in some cases repeatedly) being brought up, or because you actually think that the story of the trilogy is genuinely 100% logically consistent?

Any story will have plot holes and inconsistencies, as long as they don't fundamentally break the narrative and your enjoyment then what's the problem?

I'm not really frustrated, I'm having fun getting angry about nonsense.

I don't think the works of Tolkien are 100% logically self-consistent but I think they are well-thought-through tales that require more than a casual watch of the movies before you're going to be able to pick any great holes in them.

EDIT: I am actually a relatively casual Tolkien fan as well. I struggle to get through The Silmarillion because it's written in a very dense way that I don't find terribly accessible. So I don't know that much about the extended LOTR universe, but I have read LOTR several times and have yet to identify any damning plot holes.

Karl wrote:I'm not really frustrated, I'm having fun getting angry about nonsense.

Finally he admits the LotR is nonsense, victory for the naysayers!

Karl wrote:

Jenuall wrote:Are the Tolkien fans getting so frustrated here because of the way these queries are (in some cases repeatedly) being brought up, or because you actually think that the story of the trilogy is genuinely 100% logically consistent?

Any story will have plot holes and inconsistencies, as long as they don't fundamentally break the narrative and your enjoyment then what's the problem?

I'm not really frustrated, I'm having fun getting angry about nonsense.

I don't think the works of Tolkien are 100% logically self-consistent but I think they are well-thought-through tales that require more than a casual watch of the movies before you're going to be able to pick any great holes in them.

Cool. And I would agree that they are surprisingly well thought out - given the breadth and depth of the world he created you would generally expect to find far greater issues than have been.

I may not personally love the books but I certainly respect the level of effort that Tolkien obviously put in to achieve the degree of consistency that he did.

I’m on my annual re read at the moment.
Need to get a move on. Only just had the council of Elrond.

OrangeRakoon wrote:Drivel

You know there was one guaranteed way of destroying the ring? Send a few Hobbits to destroy it.

Denster wrote:I’m on my annual re read at the moment.
Need to get a move on. Only just had the council of Elrond.

The Council of Elrond was silly. Why didn’t Boromir suggest that they spend all their time and money on inventing a jumbo jet so that they could fly to Mordor? Gimli wouldn’t have trusted flying, but he could have spent his time inventing a fleet of tanks to invade Mordor properly!

strawberry floating plot holes everywhere!

Just to clarify, OR, your plan involves:

• Somehow tricking three eagles into flying a hobbit - who has been chained to a super-locked treasure chest - an elf, and a wizard to the skies above Mount Doom without suspecting at any point that they are doing something important
• Suspending Frodo and his heavy box from one of those eagles via a thin rope that is breakable by arrow
• Convincing Legolas, who is essentially a good person, to shoot Frodo into magma
• Having a midair battle between a few birds versus nine fell-beasts with ring-wraiths - including the witch-king, who can in-canon totally beat Gandalf up - with aerial support from various other airborne monsters, under the gaze of Sauron, on his home turf

...and you feel this is legit a better and less risky plan than having someone the enemy wouldn't possibly suspect stealth their way in?

Here's what would happen: the eagle carrying the ring would realise what he was doing and eat Frodo and take it (big locked box or no) for himself. While that's happening, the witch-king would absolutely wreck Gandalf. Oh and Legolas would be captured and tortured to death.

Karl wrote:Here's what would happen: the eagle carrying the ring would realise what he was doing and eat Frodo and take it (big locked box or no) for himself. While that's happening, the witch-king would absolutely wreck Gandalf. Oh and Legolas would be captured and tortured to death.

Sounds good let's run with it.

Middle earth covered in darkness. All thanks to Preezy, a witless worm.

Karl wrote:Here's what would happen: the eagle carrying the ring would realise what he was doing and eat Frodo and take it (big locked box or no) for himself. While that's happening, the witch-king would absolutely wreck Gandalf. Oh and Legolas would be captured and tortured to death.

Now tell me you wouldn't watch that as a new Amazon show

Anything that leads to Legolas dying can only be a good thing

Denster wrote:Middle earth covered in darkness. All thanks to Preezy, a witless worm.

Karl wrote:Just to clarify, OR, your plan involves:

• Somehow tricking three eagles into flying a hobbit - who has been chained to a super-locked treasure chest - an elf, and a wizard to the skies above Mount Doom without suspecting at any point that they are doing something important
• Suspending Frodo and his heavy box from one of those eagles via a thin rope that is breakable by arrow
• Convincing Legolas, who is essentially a good person, to shoot Frodo into magma
• Having a midair battle between a few birds versus nine fell-beasts with ring-wraiths - including the witch-king, who can in-canon totally beat Gandalf up - with aerial support from various other airborne monsters, under the gaze of Sauron, on his home turf

...and you feel this is legit a better and less risky plan than having someone the enemy wouldn't possibly suspect stealth their way in?

Here's what would happen: the eagle carrying the ring would realise what he was doing and eat Frodo and take it (big locked box or no) for himself. While that's happening, the witch-king would absolutely wreck Gandalf. Oh and Legolas would be captured and tortured to death.

It might be a terrible plan, but I would watch the gooseberry fool out of that.

What I don't get is - Gollum had the Ring for a loooong time, right? So whilst he had it, why didn't Sauron see it? Surely he could have sent some trolls or goblins to go and get it from him? And when Bilbo put the ring on and disappeared up the garden path (oo-er) why didn't Sauron get drawn to that happening?

I think Sauron comes across quite badly in the story, he's a bit incompetent.

9 pages?!

Preezy wrote:What I don't get is - Gollum had the Ring for a loooong time, right? So whilst he had it, why didn't Sauron see it? Surely he could have sent some trolls or goblins to go and get it from him? And when Bilbo put the ring on and disappeared up the garden path (oo-er) why didn't Sauron get drawn to that happening?

I think Sauron comes across quite badly in the story, he's a bit incompetent.

Sauron was still regaining his power after getting his finger chopped off.

Yeah, Sauron totally sucked for a long time. They had to put him through many training montages in order for him take the form of a big fiery anus.

I think its pretty obivous that the eagles coudlnt fly to mordor because they would be weighed down by plot armour.

Gandalf should have just use his magic to beat everyone.

In historic move, Christopher Tolkien resigns as director of Tolkien Estate

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2017/11 ... en-estate/

Site above thinks CTolkien's retirement was the catalyst for this Amazon deal and that there will be further deals, maybe even stuff along the lines of a theme park, and programming which was seen as impossible whilst he was still head of the estate. (HBO Silmarillion is given as an example.)

twitter.com/LOTRonPrime/status/1103656946509344768