Are You A Hitman? - Game Thread --Game Ended--

[Zilnad]

I understand why you do it now, DarkRula. It's quite fun, this writing lark.

[Jenuall]

I was sure I turned the webcam off!

[DarkRula]

I understand why you do it now, DarkRula. It's quite fun, this writing lark.

Indeed. Just go wild with scenarios. Let your darkest fantasies live through your words.

Not... that I've done so...

[Corazon de Leon]

I would Ike to point out that the who's online thing is a friggin shambles.

I was hidden and rehid every morning but apparently hide status mean strawberry float all in this heap of phpbb software.

Wow. If that's the case, special roles definitely need to head to Discord or something similar to avoid getting caught out. I was considering getting people to join my Discord for special roles, but considering it's got a grand total of one person within it (me), I think unless everyone in the game joined (and why would regualr town members need to when the game is played here on the forum), you'd face the same problem in that it would have been easy to identify the special roles.

Just on this point, the one time I’ve played one of these games as a wolf the only PMs we sent on here were to get WhatsApp details and set up a chat. Seems eminently logical if it’s within the rules to keep conversations off the forum where possible.

[Drumstick]

WhatsApp was suggested.

[Pancake]

We didn't use WhatsApp because Ironhide doesn't really use a phone, preferred to be inclusive.

[Qikz]

Yo!

Does the below post look at all familiar to you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. With his Hitmen brothers successfully killing us and being, what, three kills off victory, the logical thing to do is obviously to pretend to be a Bodyguard and risk screwing everything up for them.

It was a revised version of one of your old posts in a game where me, Cutty, Sykes and Frank destroyed the Town.

Yes, it makes perfect sense. With us Mafia brothers successfully killing citizens using our code and being, what, three kills off victory, I thought the logical thing to do would be to pretend to be the Detective and strawberry float everything up!

You punk didn't spot that, you Hitman scumbag!

Worst moment of this game for me was when I died, after having told you all to trust Errkal because he was in Dan's screenshots but not caught PMing, only for Dan to PM me to explain that he had caught Errkal PMing but had withheld it from the thread . The same was true for OrangeRKN too, but Errkal was the real kick in the balls!

I hate you so damn much.

[OrangeRKN]

Not using who is online should just be a rule, and it shouldn't have to be disabled to enforce that same as we just trust town members not to PM each other or post after death. It's silly to force the mafia to communicate off-forum when they might not necessarily want or be able to to play a forum game. "Catching" mafia that way isn't really anything to do with the game, certainly not in keeping with the spirit and intention of it, and is pretty hollow as a town lynch (just look at what lack of discussion it allowed for on the day's vote for mic).

Similar goes for editing posts, until Dan did so I was under the impression it was known to not be allowed just as standard mafia play. There wasn't an explicit rule against it in the OP - but neither was there one against scrrenshotting role PMs, and we understand that to be a rule! Editing posts opens up all manner of shenanigans given the asynchronous nature of forums that aren't really fitting with the public discussion premise of the game.

So yeah, when I saw a post had been edited to add a log from who is online... that's pretty much just cheating imo! I do appreciate it wasn't intended like that and not everyone will agree, but I think future games need to be explicit on the rules.

I'd add that the experience is different for anyone with mod powers too - we can see hidden users on who is online, and if we edit posts we don't get a "last edited at..." line that regular users do.

Otherwise the main two points of imbalance were underpowered bodyguards and an overpowered vet.

The bodyguards were hugely nerfed by having one use powers that also required very specific usage to be helpful. The chances of them finding a hitman were very low even before factoring in the effect of the veteran.

The veteran being safe from detection and only one person needing to submit a kill made the strategy of alternating the vet sumbitting very obvious and powerful. It was an unnecessarily strong power for the vet considering the bodyguard mechanics.

Vote rigging is a powerful role, but much moreso as a mafia power as it can effectively be used to shorten the game by a day. Here the vet had effectively two vote rigs which we really used to our advantage.

In general I thought no PMs for town was great, as was knowing the roles upfront (sacrificial watch aside).

[Denster]

I think if you dont put yourself as hidden at the start then you're fair game as far as im concerned. It's always been a legitimate tactic to use.

[Errkal]

I think if you dont put yourself as hidden at the start then you're fair game as far as im concerned. It's always been a legitimate tactic to use.

I disagree, it isn't part of the game and shouldn't be allowed. It used to get turned off for games.

It also doesn't help that it doesn't bloody work properly. I literally logged out on all my devices and back in with it enabled and within a couple of hours I was back on the damn who's online list.

[Herdanos]

Well, I'm glad it didn't end up being a factor in the outcome then...

[Oblomov Boblomov]

Yo!

Does the below post look at all familiar to you?

Yes, it makes perfect sense. With his Hitmen brothers successfully killing us and being, what, three kills off victory, the logical thing to do is obviously to pretend to be a Bodyguard and risk screwing everything up for them.

It was a revised version of one of your old posts in a game where me, Cutty, Sykes and Frank destroyed the Town.

Yes, it makes perfect sense. With us Mafia brothers successfully killing citizens using our code and being, what, three kills off victory, I thought the logical thing to do would be to pretend to be the Detective and strawberry float everything up!

You punk didn't spot that, you Hitman scumbag!

Worst moment of this game for me was when I died, after having told you all to trust Errkal because he was in Dan's screenshots but not caught PMing, only for Dan to PM me to explain that he had caught Errkal PMing but had withheld it from the thread . The same was true for OrangeRKN too, but Errkal was the real kick in the balls!

I hate you so damn much.

Because Dan withheld the Errkal/ORKN evidence or just in general?

Bit harsh if the former as it was totally out of my control. Totally fair enough if the latter!

[Oblomov Boblomov]

I agree the Who Is Online thing just isn't cricket. It didn't seem quite so rotten this time as the game was so drastically imbalanced. But it really isn't in the spirit of the game at all.

Editing posts I think is absolutely fair game. I'm not sure I understand your rationale on that one, ORKN? (Obviously, as long as any editing is done prior to death!) The only issue I can see is that mods don't have the 'edited by...' turn up on their posts. I don't really understand why that is a thing at all. The more you think about it, the more Orwellian it becomes .

[Moggy]

Thanks to DarkRula for running the game. I didn't survive very long but it was enjoyable while it lasted.

I don't mind the who's online being used in games, but OR raises some interesting points. I think mods/admins that play do have a slight unfair advantage, editing without being noticed and being able to see the hidden who's online for instance.

A lot of things come down to trust. We could have a "no using who's online" rule, but that doesn't stop somebody sneaking a look. Or sending a crafty PM. We trust that mods don't make sneaky edits etc.

[Herdanos]

IIRC mods who played AYAW would voluntarily de-mod for the game's duration

[OrangeRKN]

Editing posts I think is absolutely fair game. I'm not sure I understand your rationale on that one, ORKN?

If I've not been online for a few hours I think I should be able to read the thread and trust I am catching up on everything that happened. If people can edit their posts then I might never have a chance to see what was supposed to be publicly spoken. Public discussion is basically the crux of it - editing basically just gives an opportunity to communicate privately. The other is just the practicality of keeping up with the thread and not making "look back through all 30 pages every day" a part of the game.

In the way Dan used it he edited an early post just before the night kill was announced so that his info would be in the thread even if he died - but not in a way that was obvious, so if he hadn't died he could have presumably edited it back out and kept it secret. I think that gets around what should be the dilemma there of "do I announce what I know in case I die, or hold off in case I don't". A detective for example if editing is allowed might do similar every night to ensure their investigation results are shared in the event of their death, but without role claiming with a post that everyone will see. That doesn't seem desirable to me to eliminate that dilemma.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

Editing posts I think is absolutely fair game. I'm not sure I understand your rationale on that one, ORKN?

If I've not been online for a few hours I think I should be able to read the thread and trust I am catching up on everything that happened. If people can edit their posts then I might never have a chance to see what was supposed to be publicly spoken. Public discussion is basically the crux of it - editing basically just gives an opportunity to communicate privately. The other is just the practicality of keeping up with the thread and not making "look back through all 30 pages every day" a part of the game.

In the way Dan used it he edited an early post just before the night kill was announced so that his info would be in the thread even if he died - but not in a way that was obvious, so if he hadn't died he could have presumably edited it back out and kept it secret. I think that gets around what should be the dilemma there of "do I announce what I know in case I die, or hold off in case I don't". A detective for example if editing is allowed might do similar every night to ensure their investigation results are shared in the event of their death, but without role claiming with a post that everyone will see. That doesn't seem desirable to me to eliminate that dilemma.

Fair enough, I understand your opinion. Can imagine it being something half the forum feels one way about and half the opposite.

[Herdanos]

If post editing had been explicitly disallowed - or even something that had been frowned upon in previous games! - I would have just publicly presented the case against Errkal and OrangeRKN as soon as mic died and was confirmed a hitman.

[Hypes]

Just out of interest do you know who the third bodyguard is?

No clue, PMs are banned and they haven't come forward. I don't see why now as its the last day and let's be honest with a 2 way vote we've lost.

Perhaps they tried to subtly make themselves known in posts to you

*cough* *cough*

[Captain Kinopio]

I can't believe people think the who is online stuff is a dirty tactic but taking Hitmen conversation offline to WhatsApp is legitimate.