Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Grand Final Submissions Stream TONIGHT 9PM!

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Karl_
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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:06 pm

Yubel wrote:.

Hey, I just saw on the stream you asked a question but I wasn't there to answer!

Yes, your interpretation is right! My level takes about 60 seconds - the first 30 seconds in the desert you are supposed to try out a few routes to figure how to speed-run it, whereas the latter 30 seconds in the caves is a more traditional speed-run where the route is obvious* and it's all about timing the jumps.

I have no idea if it "works" as a fun experience (not for me to decide ;) ) but if you watch how Devlin plays he actually does discover more optimal ways to play the first half as he retries it, so I was pretty happy with that.

One or two more goes and I think he would have found the best path through the desert, which feels a lot more "speed-runny" than the path you're likely to take first time through. The second half is more vanilla because I know not everyone wants to replay a level so I wanted to end on a fun momentum-based bit that everyone would get to experience.

* Actually there is a secret route in the second half too! I hope some people figure it out!

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Supachipz » Mon Jul 06, 2020 12:28 pm

There was an interesting mix of levels this week.

To me the brief was about running and keeping on running throughout the level which are the kind of levels I really love

There were parts of some of these that felt the opposite of that at times, but I feel like they all got there in the end.

Good luck for the voting everyone :)

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by OrangeRKN » Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:32 pm

Played the levels now, was definitely fun to go in blind for once. On the other hand, I died half a dozen times attempting Karl's level and not understanding what I was supposed to do at all before I realised I could spin jump off the enemies :P How does the voting work this week?

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Cheeky Devlin » Mon Jul 06, 2020 7:12 pm

Voting is as normal this week in by 8pm Sunday.

You are ranking the four levels from best to worst. All makers, current and eliminated, can and should vote.

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:22 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:On the other hand, I died half a dozen times attempting Karl's level and not understanding what I was supposed to do at all before I realised I could spin jump off the enemies :P

I take it that it wasn't your cup of tea :slol: sorry about that!

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by OrangeRKN » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:33 pm

Not liking [core mario mechanic] is definitely more on me than you!

I think it's a combination of things. A jump action in a platformer being on a shoulder button just doesn't feel right. Intuitively it makes no sense to me why spinning around means you can bounce off things you can't jump off. I also think the sound effect for spinning is a bit... annoying? As for not even considering it as an option, that comes from me not having played Mario World and mostly ignoring that style in the game, and it not normally being required in the NSMB style (I think Nintendo must consider it an "advanced" technique, in the same way they consider holding y to run an advanced technique, so levels are always completable without doing either of those things?).

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Karl_
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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:41 pm

That's fair! Spinning (and what you can spin off) is pretty intuitive for me, but I played Super Mario World as a kid so it's kinda etched into my hindbrain, you know? I actually do agree that it doesn't, objectively speaking, make much sense :P

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by OldSoulCyborg » Tue Jul 07, 2020 1:00 am

OrangeRKN wrote:Played the levels now, was definitely fun to go in blind for once. On the other hand, I died half a dozen times attempting Karl's level and not understanding what I was supposed to do at all before I realised I could spin jump off the enemies :P How does the voting work this week?


Did you fare any better in my level? I guess it depends on the order you played them in, but I am curious how helpful all those 'Z' markings really are.

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Jenuall » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:34 am

Said this on the stream that I always find the Z track marks confusing because I don't associate the spin with the Z button (plus the fact that the Switch doesn't even have a straight up Z button!)

Obviously it doesn't take long to adapt but it's still an odd mental disconnect! :lol:

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by OrangeRKN » Tue Jul 07, 2020 9:46 am

I never twigged that 'Z' means spin, the button association is completely lost on me as it's R as far as I'm concerned! That retroactively makes past Zs make more sense too, like in the flying squirrel level. I always assumed the shape was meant to convey something about moving forward, down-and-back, then forward again, or something like that.

I'm not sure what the 'U' markings are meant to convey either, the direction in which you should throw (towards the open end of the U)?

I've liked the track markings when they've been used to trace the direction to shoot an arrow, or to show which side of a shell to fall down on (because they neatly lined up off-centre in that case).

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by OldSoulCyborg » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:23 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:I never twigged that 'Z' means spin, the button association is completely lost on me as it's R as far as I'm concerned! That retroactively makes past Zs make more sense too, like in the flying squirrel level. I always assumed the shape was meant to convey something about moving forward, down-and-back, then forward again, or something like that.

Yeah, R would definitely make more sense. Unfortunately it's not as easy to write and it doesn't read as clearly as Z (which is important when you're blazing past and don't have much time to react).

OrangeRKN wrote:I'm not sure what the 'U' markings are meant to convey either, the direction in which you should throw (towards the open end of the U)?

Yep. I borrowed that marking from kaizo levels.
Originally there was no pipe at the start of the level, but I realised I probably needed a simple tutorial section very early in the level where players would (hopefully) learn to associate those U marks with which direction to throw.
Seeing an On/Off block ahead might be enough of a hint, but by the time it scrolls on-screen it might be too late for the player to react.

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:29 pm

I think because there's such a range of people playing Mario Maker, and you ultimately only control one level (not, like, a whole game), it can be very tricky to introduce concepts in a tutorialised way.

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Supachipz » Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:47 pm

Cyborg, your level really clicked with me when I started paying attention to the rock blocks and the Zs

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Tue Jul 07, 2020 8:10 pm

Just wanted to say I've played all three of the other levels now, and they were all really really good. :wub:

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 6:32 pm

I'm sure it won't last, but I currently have all three world records :toot: :nod:

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 08, 2020 7:46 pm

Karl_ wrote:I'm sure it won't last, but I currently have all three world records :toot: :nod:

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Karl_
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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 8:20 pm

I already lost one :oops:

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:15 pm

1 down...

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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Jenuall » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:42 pm

2 down...

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Karl_
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PostRe: Re: Are You A Master Mario Maker 2020 - Quarter Final Guidelines Pg 28!
by Karl_ » Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:55 pm

Ooo, I was sure I had done a good job on OSC's, but you've pipped me! :P


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