Are you religious?

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Superking** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:49 am

TBH even though I find Religion on the whole to be a bit ridicuous, I find it hard to condemm it all as inherintly evil at least on a personal level. The amount of times I've seen people who say that belief is what got them through a difficult period suggests that it is a force for the good even if a load of bollocks. The problems occur on a larger scale when religion can be a force of control and divison. It all comes down religion being fine so long as its private. Just don't shove it in my face.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Stig** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 1:52 am

Doesn't mean I find the fact that so many people believe in myths and fairy stories any less startling though. I can understand why they might want to think that, for that reason and that reason only (the fear of the unknown), but I still think it's slightly crazy.

If I came along and said that there was a 6 headed talking snake under my desk some people would rightly question my me; there is no difference with believing in an all seeing, all knowing man in the sky, who in the words of George Carlin, "Always needs money."

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Superking** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:00 am

Stig wrote:Doesn't mean I find the fact that so many people believe in myths and fairy stories any less startling though. I can understand why they might want to think that, for that reason and that reason only (the fear of the unknown), but I still think it's slightly crazy.

If I came along and said that there was a 6 headed talking snake under my desk some people would rightly question my me; there is no difference with believing in an all seeing, all knowing man in the sky, who in the words of George Carlin, "Always needs money."

I don't find the concept of a God entirely silly its just the scripture and miracles stuff etc. which I find silly. In all honesty its because most people have been brought up to believe it. Brainwashed if you really want. The reason Atheism is on the rise in the west is mainly because kids are more likely to be encouraged to think for themselves and make up their own minds. Even in my agnosticism used to think well exactly how much of this is residule guilt from my christain background? A good course in Philosophy will always do the trick I reckon.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Fishfingers** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:01 am

What annoys me is that there are people who spend a LOT of their time on religious activities for no personal gain. We all know that for as long as we live we're not going to know what exactly happens, and even after we've stopped living we might never know.

So, unless you're a paid minister or something, what is the point?

Corazon de Leon · PostRe: Are you religious? by **Corazon de Leon** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:07 am

It's something that people want to do, it's something that they might enjoy doing. I wouldn't laugh at someone for volunteering at a Church or a Mosque or a Synagogue, I know some of these places do good work for their community.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Superking** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:08 am

Maybe because they really truly believe in it. Approaching the question from a different angle i.e Why do you discuss this crap? Personally even though I've grown to really strawberry floating hate Philosophy of Religion I still enjoy disscussing it even if its pointless.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Skarjo** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:09 am

Corazon wrote:It's something that people want to do, it's something that they might enjoy doing. I wouldn't laugh at someone for volunteering at a Church or a Mosque or a Synagogue, I know some of these places do good work for their community.

Your pat on the back is in the post.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Igor** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:12 am

Ah, so it's not so much the believing in 'God' that makes a person weak, but the notion of a 'heaven', and the possibility that someone may miss the natural beauty on this planet, yeah?

One thing I have always be confused about, is the homosexuality thing. God told Moses that '[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a toevah' (roughly translated as abomination or 'straying from the natural path').

And that is the only mention of bum sex in the Torah. Nothing in 'The 10 Commandments' passed down to Moses, no mention from Jesus (although he isn't particularly relevant to Judaism anyway), nothing. Then there is also the questionable relationship between David and Jonathon.

Homosexuality isn't (in regards to Orthodox Judaism) inherently sinful, just unnatural. Sleep with your sister and you'd be in for it worse.

Anyway, this isn't about homosexuals, so I'll leave it at that.

EDIT: That was in response to what Skargo said earlier.

Corazon de Leon · PostRe: Are you religious? by **Corazon de Leon** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:14 am

Skarjo wrote:
Corazon wrote:It's something that people want to do, it's something that they might enjoy doing. I wouldn't laugh at someone for volunteering at a Church or a Mosque or a Synagogue, I know some of these places do good work for their community.

Your pat on the back is in the post.

Volunteering at a Church is not something I would do, or feel pressured to do though, I'm just saying I can understand why people feel the need to give something back to a community they feel they're a part of or that they feel has helped them in some way. I'd like to do something that would help people myself, but I'd like to do it on my own terms and I'd like to know that what I'm doing will make a difference to others' lives. I just don't know what I'd like to do yet.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Superking** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 2:19 am

Igor wrote:Ah, so it's not so much the believing in 'God' that makes a person weak, but the notion of a 'heaven', and the possibility that someone may miss the natural beauty on this planet, yeah?

I'd say so although weak is a strong word and i'm not convinced the stern belief that you'll live on forever in heaven means you're more likely to fear death. Its definitely a reaction to a fear of death but if you truly believe it then I doubt you'll fear death. Its no conincidence that many people on their deathbed turn to religion. Anyway with that I think i'm done for the night. Most likely for the best. I mean I keep on misspelling a subject I spent 3 years studying for God's sake :fp:

No pun intended or is there?

PostRe: Are you religious? by **JiggerJay** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 3:28 am

Stig wrote:Doesn't mean I find the fact that so many people believe in myths and fairy stories any less startling though. I can understand why they might want to think that, for that reason and that reason only (the fear of the unknown), but I still think it's slightly crazy.

If I came along and said that there was a 6 headed talking snake under my desk some people would rightly question my me; there is no difference with believing in an all seeing, all knowing man in the sky, who in the words of George Carlin, "Always needs money."

I remember him getting in a lot of trouble over that back in the day, quite possibly his greatest "skit" ever, whether you look at it seariously and question the higher power or just look at it for a laugh, he is talking common sense in my opinion!

And yes Joe Peschi > God.

Something Fishy · PostRe: Are you religious? by **Something Fishy** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:41 am

I learned a long time ago tha aform is a bad place to try to talk about faith.

Why are we seperating Catholic and Christian though? Cathlolics are Christians.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Denster** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:44 am

Mr Plough wrote:That is quite a bleak world view there Denster though I suspect its just the way you put it. I think the fact that the human mind even has the ability to comprehend its own existence is quite a comforting thought whether or not its the result of a creative force. If anything the lack of a creator makes us even more unique.

No its not bleak. I have a fierce joy of life and for all of its wonders and beauty. I just enjoy it for what it is and try to enjoy my time here as much as i can. I just dont need to explain my existence in terms of why im here and what does it all mean. Some many lives have been wasted in senseless conflicts, persecutions and living lives hamstrung by relgious dogma when you can just be free. I try to live my life in a way that benefits myself and those closest to me. I chose a profession where im helping and looking after people who are much less fortunate than myself and i try and avoid causing harm or distress to anyone if i can avoid it. This is a conscious choice by a free thinking person not because i have been told to do so or feel compelled to do so by an outdated set of rules.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Denster** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:49 am

Mini E wrote:
Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

I do pity you if this is all you can see in life. I do genuinely pity that you're not more open to possibilities.

You're agreat guy denny, But your post there really ... Bullshit in my opinion mate.

Im sorry you feel that way - although you're pity would be far better applied elsewhere. As i have said. This is not a bleak outlook. I love life and love my life but dont need the additional support that it has to mean something in the grand scheme of things. I accept that my life is just on of billions and the universe will not notice when i have gone. Thats self awareness and its a marvellous thing. Far more miraculous to me than myths and ancient chinese whispers dressed up as fact.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Carlos** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:57 am

We need more people like him!

I thought that was quite amusing too.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Witcher** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:48 am

Moderator Sir Geoff wrote:I am not a religious man, I simply believe in God. As for the Big Bang theory, it's fake I'm afraid. Can't believe in that. Way too simple and it doesn't even make sense, if everything blew up then how could it exist? Those people on the Internet should have thought of that when they came up with the Big bang theory. Besides there would have to be a god, the world is too great for it not to be.

Some nutters say that there is no evidence for god but there clearly is, it's everywhere, we see it everyday. It's those little things in life that make the world so great. Not just things like the birds whistling in the morning, those beautiful sunsets or a warm breezy wind on a summers day, but things like drinking some Carling™, eating Coco Pops™ on toast, reading The Sun® and about to watch some real American wrestling. Deep in everyone's hearts, we all really believe in God.

It saddens me you think that way.... We should'nt have to turn "God(s)" because we can't contemplate the vasteness of our universe.. science is based on evidence..the world is made of the Periodic table of elements.. scientists know what was necessary to create the planet ie. "The Big Bang". We need to concentrate on ourselves - Humanity is responsible for the world we live in - arguing about ancient religions is the main reason why there are wars and why the world can't do everything for everyones benefit. And for the people that have been taken to church everyday since they were 5 - can't they see they have been programmed? - or dare I say it brainwashed? - People need to think outside the box.. think what is real?
Wind in your face.. rain.. soil.. whatever there is no hokey pokey force

Hate to say it - it's just us humans here... you live 70yrs or whatever then thats it.. our brains are organic matter.. our "spritual feeling" is just that we are intelligent enough to be self concious and have emotions etc.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Hexx** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:54 am

Igor wrote: '[A man] shall not lie with another man as [he would] with a woman, it is a toevah' (roughly translated as abomination or 'straying from the natural path').

What no one admits is that basically says it's wrong to be bi.

Filthy greedy bisexuals.

PostRe: Are you religious? by **poshrule_uk** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 10:53 am

Atheist. Once you die that is it!

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Stig** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:02 am

Denster wrote:
Mini E wrote:
Denster wrote:My invisible friend is better than yours - thats what religion is.

People grasp hold of ludicrous beliefs because they dont like the idea that we are alone. That we are here because of a happy accident. There is no guiding force. No justice in the end. No reward for a lifetime of sacrifice and self denial.

We live and die. How we do both is all that should concern us.

Religion is a conjurors trick to distract us from looking into the abyss.

I do pity you if this is all you can see in life. I do genuinely pity that you're not more open to possibilities.

You're agreat guy denny, But your post there really ... Bullshit in my opinion mate.

Im sorry you feel that way - although you're pity would be far better applied elsewhere. As i have said. This is not a bleak outlook. I love life and love my life but dont need the additional support that it has to mean something in the grand scheme of things. I accept that my life is just on of billions and the universe will not notice when i have gone. Thats self awareness and its a marvellous thing. Far more miraculous to me than myths and ancient chinese whispers dressed up as fact.

Both this and the one above are great posts!

PostRe: Are you religious? by **Stig** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:09 am

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w ... 732048.ece

An Italian comedienne who said that Pope Benedict XVI would go to Hell and be tormented by homosexual demons is facing a prison term of up to five years.

Addressing a Rome rally in July, Sabrina Guzzanti warmed up with a few gags about Silvio Berlusconi — her favourite target for her biting impressions — before moving on to some unrepeatable jokes about Mara Carfagna, the Equal Opportunities Minister and one-time topless model.

But then she got religion, and after warning everyone that within 20 years Italian teachers would be vetted and chosen by the Vatican, she got to the punchline: "But then, within 20 years the Pope will be where he ought to be — in Hell, tormented by great big poofter devils, and very active ones, not passive ones."

The joke may have gone done well with her crowd on the Piazza Navona in Rome, but not with Italian prosecutors. She is facing prosecution for "offending the honour of the sacred and inviolable person" of Benedict XVI.

The Christian world may have been dismayed, even outraged, at the Muslim reaction in 2005 to Danish cartoons satirising the Prophet Muhammed, but Italian law enforcement appears to have had its own sense of humour failure. Giovanni Ferrara, the Rome prosecutor, is invoking the 1929 Lateran Treaty between Italy and the Vatican, which stipulates that an insult to the Pope carries the same penalty as an insult to the Italian President. Prosecution requires authorisation from the Ministry of Justice, for which Mr Ferrara has applied.

The incident has strong political overtones as Mr Berlusconi has been at pains to court the Vatican — and the Catholic vote — since returning to power for the third time in May. Last weekend he accompanied Benedict to Cagliari in Sardinia and attended mass there.

The July rally was called to protest against alleged interference by the Vatican and the Catholic Church in Italian affairs, from abortion to gay rights, but also to attack the Prime Minister for passing "ad personam" laws to protect his own interests and avoid prosecution on corruption allegations.

Mr Berlusconi, who owns Italy's three main commercial television channels and as Prime Minister also wields influence over RAI, the state broadcaster, has been accused by the Left of using his media power to muzzle critics and satirists.

Three years ago Ms Guzzanti released a widely praised film, Viva Zapatero!, about the suppression in 2003 of her late night show RAIot in which she had satirised the Italian Prime Minister. At the 2005 Venice International Film Festival Viva Zapatero! was given an ovation.

The move to prosecute her over her anti-papal remarks was praised by some on the centre Right, including Luca Volonte, a Christian Democrat, who said that "gratuitous insults must be punished".

However, many people were strongly critical. Paolo Guzzanti, Ms Guzzanti's father and a centre Right MP, said the move was "a return to the Middle Ages”.

"Perhaps my daughter should be submitted to the judgement of God by being made to walk on hot coals," he added.

Antonio Di Pietro, a senator and former anti-corruption magistrate, who organised the rally, said that Ms Guzzanti had only "exercised her constitutional right to freedom of thought.

"You can agree or not agree with what she said — and personally I didn't — but to put people in prison for what they think is reminiscent of a time when those who thought differently had castor oil poured down their throats" — a reference to the Fascist era, when the Laterna Treaty was enacted.

Dario Fo, the Nobel prize-winning playwright, said that applying the treaty more widely would even have led to the prosecution of Dante, since "he put a Pope in the Inferno as well, namely Boniface VIII". Marco Travaglio, a left-wing writer who also addressed the July rally, said: "At this rate Aristophanes and Rabelais would have ended up in prison for being satirists."

Even certain sections of the Church are unimpressed. Father Bartolomeo Sorge, a Jesuit scholar, told La Repubblica the move to prosecute Ms Guzzanzi was incomprehensible. "We Christians put up with many insults, it is part of being a Christian, as is forgiveness. I feel sure the Pope has already forgiven those who insulted him on Piazza Navona."

Condemned to Hell by Dante

Dante’s Inferno condemned Boniface VIII to Hell even before his death. As Dante approaches the circle of those sinners who have committed simony – the buying and selling of church offices – the soul of Pope Nicholas III mistakes Dante for Boniface:

“Shame of the Papal Chair! and art thou come,
Hollow and dismal from the fiery tomb,”
He cried – “a later doom the Prophet told –
But come, Seducer of the Spouse of God,
Who rul’d the christian world with iron rod,
Come! thine eternal revenues behold!”

Translation: Henry Boyd

And this is for criticising the head of the biggest religion in the World.

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