UNMARKED SPOILER THREAD - Avengers: Endgame - "Avenge the fallen"

[Hexx]

Yeah he might have kept it - I'm just assuming he took it back, because otherwise the new Thor 2 timeline would be...bad

Cap with the Hammer was such a cool, well deserved moment - and then he womped Thanos (think it was the best anyone did 1on1)

[Tomous]

Another thing I had a few issues with was the soul stone sequence. First of all, I didn't think mere mortals could hold the stones, have I got that wrong? Because Hawkeye seemed fine...

My main problem though was about what Thanos did in Infinity War to get it. Didn't he have to sacrifice what he loved the most? Hawkeye didn't love Black Widow the most? And he didn't even sacrifice her really. He tried to stop her.

Also, didn't Nebula know about the sacrifice issue? Why didn't she bring that up before they went?

[Hexx]

Another thing I had a few issues with was the soul stone sequence. First of all, I didn't think mere mortals could hold the stones, have I got that wrong? Because Hawkeye seemed fine...

My main problem though was about what Thanos did in Infinity War to get it. Didn't he have to sacrifice what he loved the most? Hawkeye didn't love Black Widow the most? And he didn't even sacrifice her really. He tried to stop her.

Also, didn't Nebula know about the sacrifice issue? Why didn't she bring that up before they went?

Thanos held the Soul Stone didn't he when he got it. But yeah you have to ignore other stones killing people who hold them


And yeah Thanos had to sacrifice what he loved to be worthy, Hawkeye/BlackWidow apparently just needed someone to die.

Nebula didn't know about the sacrifice. She did raise that Thanos and Gamora went to planet, only Thanos came back (which is what she knew in Infinity War) but she didn't know the death/obtaining the soul were link.

[Cheeky Devlin]

Can anyone explain the time travel to me. It they killed past Thanos how does the original snap happen? Is there anything I’ve missed beyond Banner saying it doesn’t work like other movies and the Ancient one talking about branched timelines. Are there two branched timelines now? The original MCU and now MCU up to 2014 then no Thanos.

Ok.

This basic version is "you can't change your past". Anything they do in the past won't change your present (because you already lived the past. It happened for you). That's no cause/effect. It's very different from most other media presenations of timetravel

That's why !PresentNebula could shoot !PastNebula without herself disappearing/changing. (And !PastThanos and his army were destroyed with no effect on our history)

The Ancient one explains it as if you change the past you make a new timeline (i]your[/i] timeline doesn't change). So when Bruce took the stone, he was making a new (darker) timeline for her world. That's why Bruce said they'd take the stone back.

So there's potentially many different timelines around now - 2012 Morag split, 1970s Tessect/Pym Splt, 2013 Ether Split etc (My guess is Doctor Strange 2 might explore them)

This only problem with the "past becomes different timelines" thing is that then how does Cap go back, make a different timeline where he stays....but then end up in our timeline at the end to pass on the shield?

This is a good explanation.

Cap is a trickier one. My understanding is that a new timeline would only occur if you change something. It could be that he was always "destined" to go back and was always there, so nothing changed. Carter just never mentioned him when "young Cap" comes out of the Ice or to anyone at SHIELD.

It's time travel though so you can tie yourself in knots trying to fix it and there will always be questions.

Personally this movie further reinforced the fact that it's just live-action Dragonball Z. Which is all sorts of awesome.

I'm definitely still going over it in my mind though because there is so much packed into it. Need to see it again.

All I can say at the moment is that I loved how they wrapped it up. Cap passing the Shield onto Sam was just perfect.

I was worried we would lose Thor for a moment, but I think between the most recent Avengers movies and Raganarok that Hemsworth is still having too much fun with the role to give it up.

Hulk..... Was the one part I wasn't totally happy with. It was nice to see, but I still would have liked him to have had at least one full on Hulk "moment". It's my only quibble with it though.

Tony.... Of course that's how he goes out. It seems so obvious now that I'm surprised I never saw it coming until a few minutes beforehand.

"I am Iron Man"

Other general thoughts ....

I'm glad Captain Marvel wasn't in it too much. I was worried she was going to be the one to end it all and that it might detract from the original, core Avengers. But she was there just enough to not tread on any toes. I'm looking forward to seeing more of her going forward, but they really need to come up with a villain that can challenge her.

I loved how much time and focus some of the other characters got. Nebula especially got far more time than expected.

Then there was arguably the hypest moment I've ever seen when Strange brings everyone into the fight.

God I'll be thinking about this for months.

I think Infinity War will be more rewatchable, but I couldn't have asked them to wrap it up better. Utterly astonishing achievement.

[Hexx]

IW is basically a constant rollercoaster - which is why it's so rewatchable.

I don't think is anyway near as rewatchable on the whole. It has some lovely character moments and quiet scenes, but not to the point I'd watch again and again.

That middle/later sections though

[BID0]

It looks like I will be the only one. but did anyone think the pacing was weird? It felt a bit all over the place and a bit of a mess. I found it difficult to get in to the small amount of story that was actually there.

It's currently one of my lowest rated Marvel movies as it's essentially a 3 hour fanservice stuffed full of references to 20+ movies with about as good an ending as a Doctor Who episode. It's a movie you think you want but when you see it you realise why stuffing a movie full of easter eggs is a detriment to a story which was something I thought Infinity War managed to avoid. Perhaps a second viewing will change that for me.

If you are putting it as one of your lowest rated Marvel movies then yeah I think you are going to be on your own.

It's in my bottom 1/2 - 1/4. That's something like 5-10 movies I think. Enjoyable as are all the MCU entries, I just felt after watching this one that it wasn't a story that really needed to be told other than to undo the last movie and continue the gravy train.

[Wedgie]

It looks like I will be the only one. but did anyone think the pacing was weird? It felt a bit all over the place and a bit of a mess. I found it difficult to get in to the small amount of story that was actually there.

It's currently one of my lowest rated Marvel movies as it's essentially a 3 hour fanservice stuffed full of references to 20+ movies with about as good an ending as a Doctor Who episode. It's a movie you think you want but when you see it you realise why stuffing a movie full of easter eggs is a detriment to a story which was something I thought Infinity War managed to avoid. Perhaps a second viewing will change that for me.

If you are putting it as one of your lowest rated Marvel movies then yeah I think you are going to be on your own.

It's in my bottom 1/2 - 1/4. That's something like 5-10 movies I think. Enjoyable as are all the MCU entries, I just felt after watching this one that it wasn't a story that really needed to be told other than to undo the last movie and continue the gravy train.

Down there with Thor 2?

I can’t agree with that, really. I would put it in the top half.

I just can’t decide where. A second viewing is a must. But I know it wouldn’t displace winter soldier and infinity war from the first two places.

[Moggy]

I think my top three are Infinity War, Thor: Ragnarok and Guardians of the Galaxy (the first one).

Which reminds me, I strawberry floating loved the scene in Endgame when we saw the scene from GoTG with Starlord dancing and singing.

[sawyerpip]

Endgame was a payoff of all the big moments we've been waiting for in the last 10 years, and to give an ending to some of these characters. For that reason I agree it's probably less rewatchable than IW, but I think if you didn't have the biggest smile on your face while Cap was wielding Mjolnir then these films probably aren't for you.

In regards to the time travel stuff, I agree it was slightly confusing. My understanding was separate timelines were created everytime they changed something, but these were then mostly reset by the returning of the stones. However, that still leaves a few alternate realities around that couldn't be reset, for example Loki getting away with the tesseract and the Thanos from the alternate timeline created when Sam and Nebula go back coming to our timeline and eventually dying.

With Cap I'm still not 100% sure. I'm assuming that he went back, lived a life with Peggy in an alternate timeline and then returned to ours using his time travel device, and the reason he didn't appear in the machine was just artistic license. I don't quite buy the theory that he lived through his life in the normal timeline as part of a causal loop because in that case where did the new shield come from? It has to be from an alternate timeline.

[Preezy]

Regarding the time travel aspects:

Austin:
So, Basil, if I travel back to 1969 and I was frozen in 1967, presumably, I could go back and look at my frozen self. But, if I'm still frozen in 1967, how could I have been unthawed in the '90s and traveled back to the '60s?

Austin:
Oh, no, I've gone cross-eyed.

Basil:
I suggest you don't worry about those things and just enjoy yourself.

Basil:
That goes for you all, too.

Austin:
Yes.

[Moggy]

Loki getting away with the tesseract

My memory isn’t great, did we see Loki get recaptured? Because if not then that’s how they will bring him back for later movies.

[Tomous]

Loki getting away with the tesseract

My memory isn’t great, did we see Loki get recaptured? Because if not then that’s how they will bring him back for later movies.

Or sets up his TV Show

[Moggy]

Loki getting away with the tesseract

My memory isn’t great, did we see Loki get recaptured? Because if not then that’s how they will bring him back for later movies.

Or sets up his TV Show

He’s getting a TV show?

I guess that version of Loki is still the outright evil one as well. Could be interesting and luckily for that Loki he will have no memory of the blandness of Thor 2.

[Cheeky Devlin]

What is it with Loki and that bloody Tesseract?

[Tomous]

Loki getting away with the tesseract

My memory isn’t great, did we see Loki get recaptured? Because if not then that’s how they will bring him back for later movies.

Or sets up his TV Show

He’s getting a TV show?

I guess that version of Loki is still the outright evil one as well. Could be interesting and luckily for that Loki he will have no memory of the blandness of Thor 2.

Yes.

So far for Disney+ they've announced:

Loki
Wandavision
Falcon and the Winter Soldier

I think there's a Hawkeye one coming too about him but that hasn't been confirmed yet. We don't know yet when any of these are set though.

[Moggy]

Loki getting away with the tesseract

My memory isn’t great, did we see Loki get recaptured? Because if not then that’s how they will bring him back for later movies.

Or sets up his TV Show

He’s getting a TV show?

I guess that version of Loki is still the outright evil one as well. Could be interesting and luckily for that Loki he will have no memory of the blandness of Thor 2.

Yes.

So far for Disney+ they've announced so far:

Loki
Wandavision
Falcon and the Winter Soldier

I think there's a Hawkeye one coming too about him but that hasn't been confirmed yet. We don't know yet when any of these are set though.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier? That’s CAPTAIN AMERICA FALCON to you.

[Tomous]

Loki getting away with the tesseract

My memory isn’t great, did we see Loki get recaptured? Because if not then that’s how they will bring him back for later movies.

Or sets up his TV Show

He’s getting a TV show?

I guess that version of Loki is still the outright evil one as well. Could be interesting and luckily for that Loki he will have no memory of the blandness of Thor 2.

Yes.

So far for Disney+ they've announced so far:

Loki
Wandavision
Falcon and the Winter Soldier

I think there's a Hawkeye one coming too about him but that hasn't been confirmed yet. We don't know yet when any of these are set though.

Falcon and the Winter Soldier? That’s CAPTAIN AMERICA FALCON to you.

Yeah, it's interested that's what they called it. Might mean it's set at a point where he's still Falcon or it might not mean anything I guess as they might not want to confuse people by calling it Captain American and the Winter Soldier.

[Godzilla]

Did anyone else think that Nat's meeting was an Easter egg, as they referenced an earth quake at the bottom of the ocean and how it was just an earthquake.....

Namor?

Mole Man ?

Hydro Man ?

Godzilla....

[Preezy]

One thing I don't get - once Thanos is defeated and they've got all the Infinity Stones safely under control, why don't they use them to bring Stark and Black Widow back to life?

[Thrupneybithead]

I've been thinking about how Old Cap being present at the end doesn't seem to square up with everything else we're told about time travel throughout the film, since he had lived his life with Peggy in a totally different timeline.

Is it possible that Cap returned to the 'main' timeline following the death of Peggy? We can reasonably assume that old age would take her around the same point in her life, regardless of which timeline she's in. Cap left the 'main' timeline with a quantum suit and some Pym particles, which I'm guessing are no longer scarce since Pym is now un-dusted. Perhaps he used the technology to eventually make his way back somehow?

I'm probably overthinking this, aren't I?