Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic

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Pedz
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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Pedz » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:16 pm

OrangeRKN wrote:
Pedz wrote:From what I've heard Paladins is the same in that the micro transactions are purely cosmetic, and can be completely ignored and while you don't start with every character you can earn them via in game current. Exactly the same with Fallout 76. The difference is Paladins is a f2p game and Fallout 76 was £50 or more at launch. Fortnite is the same, everything can be earned, everything is cosmetic and it is free.


The skins in Fortnite are a very visible thing, if you don't pay any money (either to buy one directly or to buy a battle pass so you can earn one), you're stuck in the default skin. In Fallout 76 there are loads of outfits available in the game, so the ones available as microtransactions are only additional alternatives as opposed to being the only way of customising your character.

It's not just that cosmetics can be ignored, it's that there are plenty of cosmetics in the base game and the microtransaction cosmetics are only additional to them. It's also not difficult to "earn" the ones available in the base game, you will find plenty just through playing the game, just like in previous Fallouts. There is no choice between paying or grinding.

That's all a good thing, but it doesn't seem to make for a very viable F2P business model.


Wait. They've made it so you can't buy skins with Vbucks?

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:27 pm

I kinda think that if we're going down the path that the game should be free-to-play because it contains payable content, then the same thought could be applied to nearly all "big" titles nowdays. I don't feel that Fallout 76 is particularly unique in this regard.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Pedz » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:37 pm

jawafour wrote:I kinda think that if we're going down the path that the game should be free-to-play because it contains payable content, then the same thought could be applied to nearly all "big" titles nowdays. I don't feel that Fallout 76 is particularly unique in this regard.


I haven't played the game, but it seems to have a lot more buyable stuff than most other games. I don't know that for certain. I also think games that have micro transactions should be cheaper or f2p when it's a big part of the game, paying full price for a game and then having a cheek to charge extra for stuff that's already in the game is a strawberry floating joke. Fair enough if things a really made at a later date, people worked afterwards to make it, but when it's there at launch and they expect more money? Get teh strawberry float.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Wed Jan 23, 2019 12:55 pm

Pedz wrote:I haven't played the game, but it seems to have a lot more buyable stuff than most other games. I don't know that for certain. I also think games that have micro transactions should be cheaper or f2p when it's a big part of the game, paying full price for a game and then having a cheek to charge extra for stuff that's already in the game is a strawberry floating joke. Fair enough if things a really made at a later date, people worked afterwards to make it, but when it's there at launch and they expect more money? Get teh strawberry float.

It hasn't got *that* much stuff to buy, Pedz; certainly not in comparison to, say, The Elder Scrolls Online. I agree with you in so far as "micro" transactions have grown to become "pretty expensive" transactions but this is not unique to Fallout 76; most "big" games are afflicted by the same approach now.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by OrangeRKN » Wed Jan 23, 2019 1:01 pm

Pedz wrote:Wait. They've made it so you can't buy skins with Vbucks?


As far as I know you can, but unless you have the battle pass it's not really viable (god knows how many hours you'd have to play to afford one)

Pedz wrote:I haven't played the game, but it seems to have a lot more buyable stuff than most other games. I don't know that for certain. I also think games that have micro transactions should be cheaper or f2p when it's a big part of the game, paying full price for a game and then having a cheek to charge extra for stuff that's already in the game is a strawberry floating joke. Fair enough if things a really made at a later date, people worked afterwards to make it, but when it's there at launch and they expect more money? Get teh strawberry float.


There isn't that much in the microtransaction store, although it has slowly been growing with a few items a week since launch. There certainly isn't much compared to what's available in the game as standard and it's not a big part of the game at all.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:31 pm

Where's that tweet comparing the price of a blue armour shader to The Witcher Blood and Wine?

It facile, but gobsmacking all the same.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:57 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:Where's that tweet comparing the price of a blue armour shader to The Witcher Blood and Wine?

It facile, but gobsmacking all the same.

Is that the Destiny 2 shader, Taf?

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Wed Jan 23, 2019 3:13 pm

jawafour wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:Where's that tweet comparing the price of a blue armour shader to The Witcher Blood and Wine?

It facile, but gobsmacking all the same.

Is that the Destiny 2 shader, Taf?


Teehee I see what you did there.

And it's a valid point! Destiny 2 launched with a terribly abusive/deceptive microtransaction system. Bungie also capped your daily exp rate (and used the UI to lie to players about it) in order to coerce people into buying more premium currency. It's one of the reasons I didn't pick the game up back then. Now though, all that's been patched out and I don't know anyone that uses Silver, said premium currency. Bar a few (like, a dozen) exclusives, every cosmetic can be earned through play. Bungie listened/was forced to listen to the community and amended their game to reflect the criticism, and all without a 'write an essay on why you're a terrible person' gimmick in sight!

Also, and rather ironically given the conversation here, D2 going free to play* was the reason I got invested at all!

*For a month.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Ad7 » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:03 pm

I see everyone is still enjoying a nice argument in here :dread:

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:03 pm

Tafdolphin wrote:...Bungie listened/was forced to listen to the community and amended (Destiny 2) to reflect the criticism...

Beyond the the news headlines, Bungie are tackling issues with Fallout 76 in a similar way. Here is an extract of their player communication of 17 January on how they're dealing with the issue of (some) players cheating:

Bungie wrote: MESSAGE ON EXPLOITS

We want Fallout 76 to be a happy and healthy world for all players, and we know that there are concerns with players finding and abusing exploits. We’re working hard to find, fix, and address these as they show up. The number of players raising these to our attention has been incredibly helpful in our process of getting to the bottom of these exploits and we greatly appreciate it. We want you to know that we take these exploits and those abusing them VERY seriously.

Once identified, we work very closely with our Support team to remove problem players that are abusing these exploits - whether that’s the duping exploits or those using cheat apps or mods to access areas in-game that are otherwise inaccessible (and unintended) for players in the game world. As we continue to change the game, we fully expect to identify new issues, but we will continue track and resolve exploits.

If you think you are experiencing an exploit, stop using it immediately and let our Support team know in a ticket.

If you feel you have experienced an issue regarding another player, including observing them using an exploit, we encourage you let our support team know by submitting a ticket...


The update also contains details on the next game update and details a new - separate to the core game - PvP mode that is in development. I see some similarities in the situation as with No Man's Sky in that, whilst some folk were declaring that "Hello Games has gone silent and aren't speaking", behind the scenes a lot of work was being done and - through keeping an eye on the official website - it was pretty easy to establish that work was in progress and communication was in place. In their update, Bethesda state:

Bethesda wrote:...Keep talking to us. We can’t answer everything but please keep giving us your thoughts and we’ll keep sharing with you. Just because we’re not posting in other places as often, doesn’t mean we’re not seeing what you’re taking the time to write and seeing how we can act on it to make Fallout 76 even better.


Bethesda are listening; particularly through their website, forum and ticketing channels. There is a lot to do and a long way to go, but the focus is there.

I know this will come across as "lol jawa is in defence force mode again" but, hey, if people on the forum know me then they'll know that - for better or worse - I like to see balance in situations.*


* Yes, I haven't been critical of Bethesda in this particular post but, by checking my past posts in this thread, you can see that I have been.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Pedz » Wed Jan 23, 2019 6:21 pm

Ad7 wrote:I see everyone is still enjoying a nice argument in here :dread:


I ain't arguing, i'm having a friendly conversation.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Thu Jan 24, 2019 8:50 am

jawafour wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:...Bungie listened/was forced to listen to the community and amended (Destiny 2) to reflect the criticism...

Beyond the the news headlines, Bungie are tackling issues with Fallout 76 in a similar way. Here is an extract of their player communication of 17 January on how they're dealing with the issue of (some) players cheating:

Bungie wrote: MESSAGE ON EXPLOITS

We want Fallout 76 to be a happy and healthy world for all players, and we know that there are concerns with players finding and abusing exploits. We’re working hard to find, fix, and address these as they show up. The number of players raising these to our attention has been incredibly helpful in our process of getting to the bottom of these exploits and we greatly appreciate it. We want you to know that we take these exploits and those abusing them VERY seriously.

Once identified, we work very closely with our Support team to remove problem players that are abusing these exploits - whether that’s the duping exploits or those using cheat apps or mods to access areas in-game that are otherwise inaccessible (and unintended) for players in the game world. As we continue to change the game, we fully expect to identify new issues, but we will continue track and resolve exploits.

If you think you are experiencing an exploit, stop using it immediately and let our Support team know in a ticket.

If you feel you have experienced an issue regarding another player, including observing them using an exploit, we encourage you let our support team know by submitting a ticket...


The update also contains details on the next game update and details a new - separate to the core game - PvP mode that is in development. I see some similarities in the situation as with No Man's Sky in that, whilst some folk were declaring that "Hello Games has gone silent and aren't speaking", behind the scenes a lot of work was being done and - through keeping an eye on the official website - it was pretty easy to establish that work was in progress and communication was in place. In their update, Bethesda state:

Bethesda wrote:...Keep talking to us. We can’t answer everything but please keep giving us your thoughts and we’ll keep sharing with you. Just because we’re not posting in other places as often, doesn’t mean we’re not seeing what you’re taking the time to write and seeing how we can act on it to make Fallout 76 even better.


Bethesda are listening; particularly through their website, forum and ticketing channels. There is a lot to do and a long way to go, but the focus is there.

I know this will come across as "lol jawa is in defence force mode again" but, hey, if people on the forum know me then they'll know that - for better or worse - I like to see balance in situations.*


* Yes, I haven't been critical of Bethesda in this particular post but, by checking my past posts in this thread, you can see that I have been.



I don't think it's overly defensive, and the Bungie comparison was a good one. Even if Bethesda's pricing structure is... bizarre at least they haven't actively tried to scam players out of free content.

But I do still think they've a real PR problem on their hands. The majority of changes are not, like Destiny, quality of life changes or fixing a dodgy microtransaction system, but rather are aimed at fixing what is in many ways a fundamentally broken game. The reason so many players are able to cheat is that the systems and checks to make sure they couldn't simply aren't there. Punishing players when they take advantage of exploits left in by the developer is an inevitable, and disastrous from a PR point of view, consequence of making a badly constructed game.

It's good that they're listening, but they've a lot of grievances to get through and time will tell how much can actually be done.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by OrangeRKN » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:41 am

The relative ease with which people can potentially cheat is perhaps another good reason for them not going F2P, as it would encourage people who get banned to just make burner accounts and redownload the game at no cost.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by LewisD » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:17 pm

Just out of curiosity I googled the latest on FO76 after I realised I hadn't heard any news about Fallout 76 in a while.

It's recently been given away for free with $5 PS4 thumbsticks:
https://www.vg247.com/2019/02/18/polish ... umbsticks/

And also given away free with used PS4 controllers:
https://www.vg247.com/2019/02/01/fallou ... p-germany/

This has to go F2P soon, surely?

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by OrangeRKN » Tue Feb 19, 2019 4:55 pm

I've not had much time to play this with my house move, but I've been trying to get back into it and am almost halfway across the map now. Joined the Firebreathers and the Order of Mysteries which is cool!

On the game giveaways, is this where businesses have bought up stock so its their responsibility to sell it? I can't think of reason for them doing it otherwise as they could return it to the publisher instead. In that case, won't it be the business that has lost money on the game and not Bethesda? Which would mean not much motivation to go F2P.

I don't actually know how the industry works at retail so someone please correct me.

As I've said before, I don't think there is a pressure to go F2P because unlike multiplayer shooters, the active population doesn't really have an impact on playing the game. Players are never stuck in lobbies waiting on others or anything similar - you could be the only person playing the game in the world and its still playable. A declining population can kill most multiplayer games as I've seen first-hand with games like Morphie's Law and Devil's Third, but Fallout 76 doesn't have that problem.

Maybe they do it hoping to increase the in-game purchases, but again they are limited and optional. It'd be interesting to see how much money they are making from microtransactions, but look at me - an unapologetic big fan of the game, and I've not been tempted by any.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Tue Feb 19, 2019 6:27 pm

LewisD wrote:Just out of curiosity I googled the latest on FO76 after I realised I hadn't heard any news about Fallout 76 in a while...

There is a lot of news out there if you're able to dig beneath the headline-grabbing stuff, Lewis!

The big news is that, just four days ago, the problem with cheating / duplicating items was eradicated. This was portrayed as a huge problem - even though it appears that less than 1% of players had been cheating* - and also that it couldn't be resolved... but it has been**.

* Source: Bethesda's Fallout 76 community forum.
** Source: As reported by Eurogamer.

Bethesda said in January that the game is not going free-to-play. Source: As reported by GameInformer.

Meanwhile, another big update launched today and the changes include a further stash upgrade from 600 to 800 pounds. The full list of changes has been published by Bethesda.

OrangeRKN wrote:...Maybe they do it hoping to increase the in-game purchases, but again they are limited and optional. It'd be interesting to see how much money they are making from microtransactions, but look at me - an unapologetic big fan of the game, and I've not been tempted by any.

Yeah, when I've looked at the Shop, items seem to be very expensive and, often, pretty unattractive. As with any other game, I am - personally - happy to pay out for stuff, but only if I think (a) it looks decent, and (b) that it offers value. For me, the Shop misses those marks at present!

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Met » Wed Feb 20, 2019 11:08 am

LewisD wrote:Just out of curiosity I googled the latest on FO76 after I realised I hadn't heard any news about Fallout 76 in a while.

It's recently been given away for free with $5 PS4 thumbsticks:
https://www.vg247.com/2019/02/18/polish ... umbsticks/

And also given away free with used PS4 controllers:
https://www.vg247.com/2019/02/01/fallou ... p-germany/

This has to go F2P soon, surely?


Don't forget the free FO76 when you buy FO76. When it starts being bundled with itself I think it's safe to say it's literally worthless.

Also saw some stuff about it not properly uninstalling, but didn't follow up on it too much.

There's been something stupid every single week. It's the best. Hopefully this bites Bethesda's next game hard and they drop the goofy "Haha expect CUH-RAAAZEE bugs guys *nudge nudge*" act and actually make a game that isn't running on a 17 year old engine.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:06 pm

I heard that the game deletes all of the data on your PS4 and then sets the hard drive on fire. The code was actually just an update from 3D Monster Maze on the ZX81. It is now being given away with packets of crisps in Moldova, too.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Pedz » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:09 pm

Well, now I'm definitely not getting it.

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PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Met » Wed Feb 20, 2019 12:53 pm

About the uninstalling thing, so I'm not leaving loose ends:



Impressive that the game went from deleting itself in the beta to refusing to delete itself during installation.


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