Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic

Anything to do with games at all.
User avatar
Met
Member
Joined in 2015

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Met » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:55 pm

Probably, but Bethesda are creatures of habit. They're still using the Morrowind engine to this day, and reuse buggy code all the time even when modders have fixed it day 1.

We know nothing of TES6, but we know Bethesda pretty well by this point.

User avatar
Rightey
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Rightey » Sun Oct 27, 2019 1:34 am

Someone I saw online pointed out that using Vault Boy as the mascot for this Fallout first thing is quite ironic as he was supposed to be the mascot of a dystopian corporation with no real regard for their customers whatsoever, basically just using tons of them as human guinea pigs and now he's being used by Bethesda, who seemingly hold all the same values.

Pelloki on ghosts wrote:Just start masturbating furiously. That'll make them go away.

Image
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Sun Oct 27, 2019 6:51 am

Rightey wrote:Someone I saw online pointed out that using Vault Boy as the mascot for this Fallout first thing is quite ironic as he was supposed to be the mascot of a dystopian corporation with no real regard for their customers whatsoever, basically just using tons of them as human guinea pigs and now he's being used by Bethesda, who seemingly hold all the same values.


New Vegas spoilers, but similarly;


Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
Photek
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Dublin

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Photek » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:12 am

I don’t understand why anyone would find the Fallout76 advert in which “9 companions watch a nuke go off like it’s fireworks” “genuinely upsetting”.

I find with Fallout76, it has its problems, I would have said ‘had’ but for this latest stunning miss step. That said I think it’s a reach to be getting upset over an advert featuring “wouldn’t it be nice” by the beach boys.

And to go OT for a moment, I really think this is huge problem for the left and ‘liberalism’ in general. We have so much genuine and disgusting things to be enraged over or to rally against. I think this Faux Outrage (imo) is counter productive.

Image
Modern Warfare Tag: PHOTEK#9326680
User avatar
Monkey Man
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Monkey Man » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:09 am


Image
User avatar
Rocsteady
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Rocsteady » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:04 am

Photek wrote:I don’t understand why anyone would find the Fallout76 advert in which “9 companions watch a nuke go off like it’s fireworks” “genuinely upsetting”.

I find with Fallout76, it has its problems, I would have said ‘had’ but for this latest stunning miss step. That said I think it’s a reach to be getting upset over an advert featuring “wouldn’t it be nice” by the beach boys.

And to go OT for a moment, I really think this is huge problem for the left and ‘liberalism’ in general. We have so much genuine and disgusting things to be enraged over or to rally against. I think this Faux Outrage (imo) is counter productive.

Completely agree with your first para. To say it's 'dangerous' is absolutely ludicrous and smacks of wanting to find offense anywhere it can be taken - nukes are bad, who'd have thought? No one on the planet is going to see some spectacular lighting in a video game from a nuclear weapon and think, maybe that's a logical solution to problems in the world. How can this even be someone's take

Image
User avatar
Cuttooth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Cuttooth » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:29 pm

Rightey wrote:Someone I saw online pointed out that using Vault Boy as the mascot for this Fallout first thing is quite ironic as he was supposed to be the mascot of a dystopian corporation with no real regard for their customers whatsoever, basically just using tons of them as human guinea pigs and now he's being used by Bethesda, who seemingly hold all the same values.

On that note:


User avatar
Peter Crisp
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Peter Crisp » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:49 pm

It may be premature but the company seems to for whatever reason be stuck using the same technology while smaller rivals use new engines and have decided that screwing customers over with microtransactions is a good idea.
There doesn't seem to be any hope that this will change or that they even recognise that these are problems and Todd Howard is not as inspiring a promoter as he seems to think he is.
If TES 6 reviews well and they've actually listened to customers and fixed the problems then I'll jump in but I won't be pre-ordering and it's going to be somewhat of a minor miracle if they manage to get me back as a customer and I even bought the Skyrim special edition signed soundtrack because of course I did :shifty: .

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
User avatar
Photek
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Dublin

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Photek » Sun Oct 27, 2019 7:54 pm

Fallout76 is pretty good tbh. :shifty:

My main beef with Fallout/Skyrim is the engine, I hope they move to a new one next gen, that said Obsidian are clearly a better team thematically which is something Bethesda needs to address.

Image
Modern Warfare Tag: PHOTEK#9326680
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Jenuall » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:04 pm

Over the the last 5 odd years some of my absolute favourite games have been published by Bethesda.

Unfortunately not one of them was actually developed by Bethesda - they really need to sort their in-house studio out because it is actively harming the wider brand at this point.

Image
User avatar
Dual
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Stool Bloke

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Dual » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:18 pm

Cuttooth wrote:
Rightey wrote:Someone I saw online pointed out that using Vault Boy as the mascot for this Fallout first thing is quite ironic as he was supposed to be the mascot of a dystopian corporation with no real regard for their customers whatsoever, basically just using tons of them as human guinea pigs and now he's being used by Bethesda, who seemingly hold all the same values.

On that note:



Nuke the rich.

User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Mon Oct 28, 2019 8:30 am

Photek wrote:Fallout76 is pretty good tbh. :shifty:

My main beef with Fallout/Skyrim is the engine, I hope they move to a new one next gen, that said Obsidian are clearly a better team thematically which is something Bethesda needs to address.


They straight up need to hire better/some actual writers. There were some good sidequests in Fallout 3 but since then the writing in their games has been dire.

Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by OrangeRKN » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:38 am

Tafdolphin wrote:New Vegas spoilers, but similarly;

https://twitter.com/MaxLebled/status/11 ... 4895652865


To compare the games through the lens of what they have to say about nuclear war is I think unfair, because it's not the prevailing theme of Fallout 76. Fallout 76's theme is automation, and the majority of its world is built around exploring the effects of that on Appalachia. Almost all of the pre-war narratives are dealing directly with or are affected by that issue, while the post-war narratives are about the interactions between the various factions and the scorch plague that threatened them.

That said, I think there is still more to be said about what Fallout 76 does with the use of nuclear weapons and how you reach the point of using them. It's literally endgame content, so obviously spoilers abound, but I'm assuming you don't mind about that:

At the very start of the game you follow the overseer out from the vault. Her mission, she records as given to her by Vault Tec, is to "secure" the nuclear silos of post-war Appalachia for her employer. Somewhat suspiciously, given Vault Tec's reputation to the player and the explicit instruction to do so regardless of the state of surviving government, but otherwise unexamined as she presents it at face value of securing the sites for the good of the area, with no mention of what Vault Tec wants to do with them. That allows following the overseer's journey to be set as a goal without any onus on the player to commit to a specific course of action (and the quest reflects this - it's "Follow the Overseer's journey to see how she did", not "Secure the silos for Vault Tec").

The main quest then, roughly and if coming from the most likely "hero" roleplay perspective, sees you introduced to the various factions of Appalachia in an order of escalating ideological compromise and stakes in the world's survival, and this reflects the main questline and the player's journey.

At first you come across the Responders, an independent group of literal first responders who tried to just look after everyone after the war. They're pretty much as close as you can get to the "good guys", but that is also seen to contribute to their collapse - their capital devastated by Raiders, forced into an uneasy alliance with an increasingly demanding Brotherhood of Steel, and facing an ever escalating threat from the Scorched.

The first compromise made is heading into what was Raider territory. Finding one remnant of the Raiders left operating, you are forced to work with them to achieve your goals, as the Responders had tried and failed previously. It's not much of a corruption though - the Raiders are all-but dead, the single survivor a robot who seems to not fully grasp the situation she is in, and so assisting her doesn't seem to cause any actual harm.

Next is the Free States, a loose coalition of survivalists and liberals who themselves were conflicted after the war between keeping to themselves or helping those who previously had berated but now needed them at Harper's Ferry. By this point the threat from the Scorched is made much more clear, and your quest to complete the Free State's work hangs heavier. It becomes clear this is a last chance for Appalachia. Like the Free States though you are doing what's right - when they chose to emerge from the safety of their bunkers to help those in need, it might have gone against their personal beliefs and best interests, but it was the right thing to do. Unfortunately, you reach Harper's Ferry to discover that despite their assistance, things went south anyway.

To reflect at this point on who you have discovered: The Responders, ideologically pure and committed to helping everyone, betrayed by those they tried to work with. The Raiders, only out for themselves and long dead because of their reliance on others solving the bigger problems. The Free States, who achieved the most with their Scorched Defence System only by reaching out and choosing to concern themselves with the outside world for the good of Appalachia - but still they all died.

Then you reach the Brotherhood of Steel down in the Cranberry Bog, the source of the Scorched and the most dangerous of Appalachia's regions. All of the player's exposure to the Brotherhood so far has been through a lens of suspicion or outright hostility, and past Fallout familiarity is enough to know of their uncompromising militaristic approach. In 76 you see more of their origin from the US armed forces, and once in their territory you get a more sympathetic view on their actions. The Brotherhood were caught in a losing war of containment with the Scorched, and that pressure they placed on the Responders that once seemed unfair now seems necessary for all of Appalachia's survival. You too are now regularly fighting the worst of the Scorched, the world openly hostile in a way the almost pleasant starting forest region never was. From the Brotherhood it becomes clear that stopping the Scorched plague is not just a priority for Appalachia, it's a vital task for the survival of the world as a whole. If it isn't contained here, it will spread across the continent and all survivors will be overcome just as all the factions of Appalachia were - including the military might of the Brotherhood of Steel.

Finally then you reach the same conclusion as the Brotherhood. Containment has failed - the only option remaining is to completely destroy the source of the Scorched. Conventional warfare has failed there too - the Brotherhood pretty much wiped themselves out in an all out assault. But you have another option. You know how to find the nuclear silos.

So you come to the Enclave. If the Responders were the good guys, it's pretty clear these are the bad. Something previous Fallout players already know, but made very clear here too. This is an insidious shadow government, open about using you for their own ends, explicitly inhuman and untrustworthy. The Enclave's AI laments how it was locked out from the region's nuclear arsenal, and from the military satellites above the planet. It's pretty clear giving them that access is a bad idea. But you do it anyway, because it's only working with the Enclave that you'll be able to stop the Scorched and save the world.

And... that's what you do, I think? I haven't finished the final quest, of actually launching a nuke at the source of the Scorched plague, but that's where you end up. Launching a nuclear missile is the final option left open, reached after all others have failed - and you're doing so now explicitly with the help of the Enclave. Whatever noble intentions you set out from Vault 76 with, the world has forced you down this path of corruption. While you are saving the world, it's explicitly coming at great cost.

There is no player choice, because none of the game has been about player choice. This is a prequel - we know the Scorched plague doesn't devastate the world. This is the story of how that happened. Given the end result of working with the Enclave, I'm pretty sure it isn't an optimistic hero's journey, but an actually quite interesting story about how a survivor of a post-nuclear world ends up thinking it a good idea to fire another nuke. It's not a decision reached lightly, in the context of the story.


So yes, after all that is done you can repeatedly launch nukes around the map for your own enjoyment and to grind out high-level loot. But that's the endgame, and after 300 hours of playtime, I never reached that point and I never fired a nuke myself. In the actual story, much more thought is given to the justification of your actions.

Tafdolphin wrote:They straight up need to hire better/some actual writers. There were some good sidequests in Fallout 3 but since then the writing in their games has been dire.


They have good writers - what they don't have is good quest writers. Fallout 76 contains plenty of compelling stories, but they are all fixed stories, relayed from the past through notes and audio logs. It's interactive storytelling, but of the walking sim variety, not the western RPG tradition. Fallout 76 works better than Fallout 4 narratively because the game is designed for that approach from the offset, with the player coming to the world after everything has already happened, as opposed to Fallout 4 that puts you in an important story-pivotal role but doesn't back it up with compelling choices or dialogue. Those issues are not present in Fallout 76 by virtue of being avoided entirely.

"Nintendo fanboys are the worst kind" - gamerforever
Image
Image
Web - RedBubble - @OrangeRakoon - GOTY 2018
User avatar
Jenuall
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: 40 light-years outside of the buttermilk nebula

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Jenuall » Mon Oct 28, 2019 10:50 am

I definitely agree that they do need better writers in general, although I cannot judge the writing content of 76 as I've not played that, but everything else they have done "recently" has been at best average.

I don't think it helps that there has been something of a resurgence of strong writing in games (perhaps not always in the AAA space admittedly) and this has "shown up" the weakness in things like Skyrim and Fallout 4 more than previously.

Image
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Mon Oct 28, 2019 11:15 am

OrangeRKN wrote:
Tafdolphin wrote:New Vegas spoilers, but similarly;

https://twitter.com/MaxLebled/status/11 ... 4895652865


To compare the games through the lens of what they have to say about nuclear war is I think unfair, because it's not the prevailing theme of Fallout 76.


And this is the issue really.

I read your summation of the story and, in that form at least it seems fairly interesting. But I maintain that's all to the side of this particular debate.

The original Fallout was about the horrors of meddling with that which shouldn't be meddled with. The nukes of the past were juxtaposed against the Master and his Super Mutants of the present, both being superweapons that threaten the very idea of human civilisation. The game comes to the same conclusion on both: they are horrors that serve only to prop up the paper-thin ideologies of the few people with real power. The whole game is about the devastating effects of these physical representations of the will of the few.

Fallout 76's story may have a more nuanced take on nukes and warfare, but its systems do not. The player is told through design that to obtain nukes is the goal, and to nuke your compatriots is the aim. It's fun. Such events were presented by the marketing material as real blockbuster moments of triumph. The game as a holistic product is pro-nuke, and evidence that not only is this game completely separate from the series' beginnings and themes but at direct odds with them. The addition of this narrative divergence to the idea of a Fallout game with no NPCs and the backgrounding of story has led to the (I think valid) perception of the game as a cash-in designed to utilise the Fallout name to mine the games as service model.

Tafdolphin wrote:They straight up need to hire better/some actual writers. There were some good sidequests in Fallout 3 but since then the writing in their games has been dire.


They have good writers - what they don't have is good quest writers. Fallout 76 contains plenty of compelling stories, but they are all fixed stories, relayed from the past through notes and audio logs. It's interactive storytelling, but of the walking sim variety, not the western RPG tradition. Fallout 76 works better than Fallout 4 narratively because the game is designed for that approach from the offset, with the player coming to the world after everything has already happened, as opposed to Fallout 4 that puts you in an important story-pivotal role but doesn't back it up with compelling choices or dialogue. Those issues are not present in Fallout 76 by virtue of being avoided entirely.


Again I can't speak to the quality of writing in Fallout 76 but the writing in both Skyrim and Fallout 4 was terrible. Yes the narrative design (that is, the way the story is told through quests and the overall systematic structure of the game) was bad but the characters and overarching narratives were also extremely poorly done. Characters in Skyrim were so inhuman as to be instantly forgettable, even the main cast, and I can't remember a single character name from Fallout 4 except for Piper who, after a promising start, became just another bark spouting combat assist.

Night Call: a game what I worked on. Out now!
t: @Tafdolphin | Twitch: Tafdolphin
User avatar
kerr9000
Member
Joined in 2013

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by kerr9000 » Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:29 pm



A video on my opinion on Fallout First and other recent news about Fallout 76.

http://kerr9000.blogspot.co.uk/ For my Blog... https://www.youtube.com/user/kerr9000 for my YouTube channel. kerr9000_blog on Instagram. kerr9000 on Xbox, PS4 etc

Return to “Games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Duke Washington, ITSMILNER, KjGarly, Met, Pedz, shy guy 64, Wedgie and 95 guests