Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic

Anything to do with games at all.
Gemini73
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Gemini73 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:38 pm

Oh dear, this thread has reared its ugly head once more.

Less and less people posting here at GRcade, and I've grown increasingly fed up of various users attempting to police threads thus resulting in the same old petty arguments resurfacing time and again.

It was fun for a while, but I'm outta here. Laters folks.
User avatar
Winckle
Technician
Joined in 2008
Location: Liverpool

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Winckle » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:45 pm

I'm sorry not every thread is a positivity posting palace, but I am very much like Taf in that I enjoy reading about the systems, mechanics, and yes failures of this game.

I have absolute no intention of playing it, but I find it fascinating to read about, and I enjoy reading Taf's posts in this thread.

User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:47 pm

jawafour wrote:I admit that your posts about Fallout 76 do frustrate me, Taf. Not because I don't think you should share your opinions, but more because I wonder what the aim of it is. You have made your views extremely clear; you haven't liked the game since it was announced and you have been critical of it since that point. You have indicated that Bethesda will not be able to do anything to change your perspective on this. Hopefully the next mainline title in the Fallout franchise - or even a further different take on the series! - will be more your thing. Would I be right in thinking that you are taking this line because you want the game to fail? So that Bethesda may focus solely on the type of games that more suit your tastes?


I've said this a few times, but I'll provide some context: my interest here is the design at play.

Over the past year I've become increasingly interested in game design and the process of creating good user experiences. This means I've gone from reading books on narrative design and game theory, to listening to in-depth podcasts about the mechanisms used in varying genres and how largely mathematical systems can be set against each other to conjure the mysterious and elusive idea of 'fun.'

To me, Fallout 76 is one of the most high profile and spectacular examples of the abject failure of many different design paths. I find this utterly fascinating in several ways: the fact that this failure was a product of a lauded development house with comparatively unlimited funds and decades of experience, the fact that this is an example of a dev house leaning into the new "games as service" model and missing the mark, the fact that the post launch development has been so badly handled and that the game continues to lurch from problem to problem.

Now there are people on here having fun with the game, which is great! I'm not here to tell you that's wrong (something that you in particular appear to think I'm doing). I'm here to disseminate and voice my opinions on perhaps one of the biggest critical flops of our time.

It may frustrate you, but I'd ask that you look at why it's frustrating to you given the reasoning I've mentioned above. I'm not telling you you're wrong to like the game, I'm not telling you it's impossible to have fun with it. Is it possible you're reading these things into my comments due to the game receiving such a schlacking on release? It's natural to respond negatively to criticism of something you like, especial if your liking it has become part of your personal brand on, say, a videogames forum.

EDIT: Winkle, have you listened to Game Studies Study Buddies? It's a great little podcast on the deconstruction of game mechanics

Gemini73 wrote:Yes your are a sanctimonious twat

Bloggy blog blog blog.

Night Call: a game what I worked on
User avatar
jawafour
Member
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:55 pm

Winckle wrote:I'm sorry not every thread is a positivity posting palace, but I am very much like Taf in that I enjoy reading about the systems, mechanics, and yes failures of this game.

I have absolute no intention of playing it, but I find it fascinating to read about, and I enjoy reading Taf's posts in this thread.

Cool.

Personally, I don't think anyone is looking for "every thread to be a positivity posting palace", and that line seems to be antagonstic.

User avatar
jawafour
Member
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Fri Jan 04, 2019 3:58 pm

Taf, I don't want us to get to a position that we have on a couple of times previously, so I shan't respond further.

User avatar
Winckle
Technician
Joined in 2008
Location: Liverpool

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Winckle » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:01 pm

Rudolphin wrote:
jawafour wrote:I admit that your posts about Fallout 76 do frustrate me, Taf. Not because I don't think you should share your opinions, but more because I wonder what the aim of it is. You have made your views extremely clear; you haven't liked the game since it was announced and you have been critical of it since that point. You have indicated that Bethesda will not be able to do anything to change your perspective on this. Hopefully the next mainline title in the Fallout franchise - or even a further different take on the series! - will be more your thing. Would I be right in thinking that you are taking this line because you want the game to fail? So that Bethesda may focus solely on the type of games that more suit your tastes?


I've said this a few times, but I'll provide some context: my interest here is the design at play.

Over the past year I've become increasingly interested in game design and the process of creating good user experiences. This means I've gone from reading books on narrative design and game theory, to listening to in-depth podcasts about the mechanisms used in varying genres and how largely mathematical systems can be set against each other to conjure the mysterious and elusive idea of 'fun.'

To me, Fallout 76 is one of the most high profile and spectacular examples of the abject failure of many different design paths. I find this utterly fascinating in several ways: the fact that this failure was a product of a lauded development house with comparatively unlimited funds and decades of experience, the fact that this is an example of a dev house leaning into the new "games as service" model and missing the mark, the fact that the post launch development has been so badly handled and that the game continues to lurch from problem to problem.

Now there are people on here having fun with the game, which is great! I'm not here to tell you that's wrong (something that you in particular appear to think I'm doing). I'm here to disseminate and voice my opinions on perhaps one of the biggest critical flops of our time.

It may frustrate you, but I'd ask that you look at why it's frustrating to you given the reasoning I've mentioned above. I'm not telling you you're wrong to like the game, I'm not telling you it's impossible to have fun with it. Is it possible you're reading these things into my comments due to the game receiving such a schlacking on release? It's natural to respond negatively to criticism of something you like, especial if your liking it has become part of your personal brand on, say, a videogames forum.

EDIT: Winkle, have you listened to Game Studies Study Buddies? It's a great little podcast on the deconstruction of game mechanics

I haven't Taf, I used to like listening to Idle Thumbs a lot, as it was a bit less serious but still had a great handle on analysing things from a game mechanics POV.

User avatar
Lagamorph
Member ♥
Joined in 2010

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:16 pm

Thing is with a game like this it's important that the negative coverage is kept up. It's important that people keep calling out even minor issues. If everyone just goes quiet and forgets about it then Bethesda are basically given a pass and other developers/publishers continue to push further in releasing broken and unfinished games, in making microtransactions even worse, in ignoring cheaters because putting systems in place to stop them would either cost money or, if you're a cynic, be ignored because cheaters just further encourage legitimate players to spend real money catching up.

Pretty much the only undeserved criticism of this game I've seen has been someone complaining about the PC version being code in box rather than a disc.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:02 pm

jawafour wrote:Taf, I don't want us to get to a position that we have on a couple of times previously, so I shan't respond further.


And this is a shame. I've given my reasons for posting here several times, and rather than engaging with me or even acknowledging that you can see where I'm coming from, you simply shut down.

For a centrist you're rather uncompromising!

Gemini73 wrote:Yes your are a sanctimonious twat

Bloggy blog blog blog.

Night Call: a game what I worked on
User avatar
jawafour
Member
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:21 pm

Rudolphin wrote:
jawafour wrote:Taf, I don't want us to get to a position that we have on a couple of times previously, so I shan't respond further.


And this is a shame. I've given my reasons for posting here several times, and rather than engaging with me or even acknowledging that you can see where I'm coming from, you simply shut down.

For a centrist you're rather uncompromising!

You just can't leave things, Taf. I'd wandered off, said I had done so and yet you still have to carry on - wanting to make out that you were "being reasonable" and "jawa won't respond to me". Absolute rubbish, of course, as anyone reading back through the posts can see.

User avatar
Tafdolphin
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Tafdolphin » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:40 pm

*overly dramatic sigh*

Oh kaaaaaaay.

Gemini73 wrote:Yes your are a sanctimonious twat

Bloggy blog blog blog.

Night Call: a game what I worked on
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by OrangeRKN » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:04 pm

Sleighamorph wrote:Bethesda are basically given a pass and other developers/publishers continue to push further in releasing broken and unfinished games


PC Metacritic scores:

Fallout 76 - 52
Fallout 4 - 84

I know which one Bethesda was given more of a pass on for that ;)

User avatar
Trelliz
Member ♥
Joined in 2008
Contact:

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Trelliz » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:14 pm

Sleighamorph wrote:Thing is with a game like this it's important that the negative coverage is kept up. It's important that people keep calling out even minor issues. If everyone just goes quiet and forgets about it then Bethesda are basically given a pass and other developers/publishers continue to push further in releasing broken and unfinished games, in making microtransactions even worse, in ignoring cheaters because putting systems in place to stop them would either cost money or, if you're a cynic, be ignored because cheaters just further encourage legitimate players to spend real money catching up.


This is the point of the matter - publishers/shareholders will get away with as much as they possibly can and rely on people getting aggressively bored with each controversy and forget:



I have never played Fallout 76 and I never will, but it has become the avatar for all the greed and complacency I loathe about videogames nowadays. The continuous rake-stepping Bethesda has done since it came out has pushed me towards the epiphany that outside a few key franchises the vast majority of games are no longer for me and I no longer want to spend money and time on them. I've started selling my physical games and consoles and looking at my digital libraries with a much more cynical eye and less will to put up with bullshit.

I have been quite vocal in criticism of all the anti-consumer practices from bethesda and friends but I don't have the energy or enthusiasm to keep it up - they've won in a way, but I hold them in the same contempt they clearly show for me and everyone else who don't own shares in their companies/are on their boards.

Tragic Magic wrote:I'm giving esteem a name of crafty Fu mining pinitz strawberry float me I live roasted ponuts

Never pre-order or pre-purchase a console, game or season pass.
User avatar
OrangeRKN
SONM & Cake Sec.
SONM & Cake Sec.
Joined in 2015
Location: Reading, UK
Contact:

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by OrangeRKN » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:35 pm

Trelliz wrote:I have never played Fallout 76 and I never will, but it has become the avatar for all the greed and complacency I loathe about videogames nowadays. The continuous rake-stepping Bethesda has done since it came out has pushed me towards the epiphany that outside a few key franchises the vast majority of games are no longer for me and I no longer want to spend money and time on them. I've started selling my physical games and consoles and looking at my digital libraries with a much more cynical eye and less will to put up with bullshit.


I understand your frustrations but the trend doesn't apply across the gaming industry, only to the big AAA titles (and even then there are exceptions). There are plenty of self-published indie games or small publisher games that are evidently passion projects unmarred by any share holder influence

User avatar
mic
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: I'm on my way...

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by mic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 6:58 pm

Winckle wrote:I'm sorry not every thread is a positivity posting palace, but I am very much like Taf in that I enjoy reading about the systems, mechanics, and yes failures of this game.

I have absolute no intention of playing it, but I find it fascinating to read about, and I enjoy reading Taf's posts in this thread.



Sleighamorph wrote:Thing is with a game like this it's important that the negative coverage is kept up. It's important that people keep calling out even minor issues. If everyone just goes quiet and forgets about it then Bethesda are basically given a pass and other developers/publishers continue to push further in releasing broken and unfinished games, in making microtransactions even worse, in ignoring cheaters because putting systems in place to stop them would either cost money or, if you're a cynic, be ignored because cheaters just further encourage legitimate players to spend real money catching up...


I agree with both of these points - particularly that I enjoy Taf’s posting on this. I’ll NEVER play fallout (even the good ones), but Bethesda ‘getting away with it’ would just encourage the rest. In this time of microtransactions, loot boxes and pay to win, every anti-consumer tactic must be highlighted... and this is a games forum.

User avatar
jawafour
Member
Member
Joined in 2012

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by jawafour » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:18 pm

>>> New! <<<
>>> GRcade World Exclusive! <<<

Choose your own response!

We don't need to agree or get annoyed about this. Just get the response you want... right away!

> If you want to dump on Bethesda because Fallout 76 is a disgrace to gaming, jump straight to response B

> If you want to hear jawa drone on about the game and the wider issues (which he is totally wrong about) start wading through response A

> If you are totally bored with this thread already, response C will quickly activate your exit

(A)
mic wrote:...I enjoy Taf’s posting on this. I’ll NEVER play fallout (even the good ones), but Bethesda ‘getting away with it’ would just encourage the rest. In this time of microtransactions, loot boxes and pay to win, every anti-consumer tactic must be highlighted... and this is a games forum.


I feel that this is the thread in a nutshell. I'm not picking a bone with you, mic - just that your post encompasses my belief on how things are panning out here.

Guys, look, I am not trying to make a point that we should support bad industry practices. I dislike season passes, poor staff contracts, "the crunch", incomplete games, in-game currencies, broken games and all of that. Heck, I started a GR thread about this kinda stuff and I've done my fair share of news-posting and moaning there.

It feels that, within GRcade, Fallout 76 has become a punch-bag for all of these woes. Possibly with good reason; Bethesda has made many mistakes / errors / cons / mis-steps with it! Even so, these issues are bigger than one game; they have been building for a few years and now this game is the target of that frustration.

Sure, I see that "we should not let Bethesda get away with it". But we should not let the industry as a whole get away with it. Many games and publishers are doing similar things to Bethesda; Activision has just launched a "red dot" aiming point on CoD that costs a dollar! Lets have the Fallout 76 thread as a place to discuss the game (and, sure, the bad aspects too, of course) but also have a dedicated "Poor gaming industry practices [Chat]" (or something like this) thread to really get into the bigger publishing / marketing aspects. Lets call out all of these bad practices and share our thoughts about them!


(B)
Fallout 76 is buggy, messy, broken piece of gooseberry-fool. Do not buy it; do not support Bethesda. It symbolises everthing that is wrong with the games industry. The whole thing is a disgrace.


(C)

Gemini73
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Gemini73 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:20 pm

Jawa, what ya doing mate? :fp:

Less and less people posting here at GRcade, and I've grown increasingly fed up of various users attempting to police threads thus resulting in the same old petty arguments resurfacing time and again.

It was fun for a while, but I'm outta here. Laters folks.
User avatar
mic
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: I'm on my way...

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by mic » Fri Jan 04, 2019 8:56 pm

Jawa, I love option c! :-)

HSH28
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by HSH28 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 9:14 pm

Sleighamorph wrote:Thing is with a game like this it's important that the negative coverage is kept up. It's important that people keep calling out even minor issues. If everyone just goes quiet and forgets about it then Bethesda are basically given a pass and other developers/publishers continue to push further in releasing broken and unfinished games, in making microtransactions even worse, in ignoring cheaters because putting systems in place to stop them would either cost money or, if you're a cynic, be ignored because cheaters just further encourage legitimate players to spend real money catching up...


Except that's not really true, this game continuing to get bad coverage won't stop any of that stuff.

The only thing that will stop those things in general is when doing them doesn't make financial sense and this single game getting bad coverage isn't going to change that.

That's not to say that bad things shouldn't be reported on, its just that you shouldn't get your hopes up that its going to change anything.

User avatar
Lagamorph
Member ♥
Joined in 2010

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:36 pm

HSH28 wrote:
Sleighamorph wrote:Thing is with a game like this it's important that the negative coverage is kept up. It's important that people keep calling out even minor issues. If everyone just goes quiet and forgets about it then Bethesda are basically given a pass and other developers/publishers continue to push further in releasing broken and unfinished games, in making microtransactions even worse, in ignoring cheaters because putting systems in place to stop them would either cost money or, if you're a cynic, be ignored because cheaters just further encourage legitimate players to spend real money catching up...


Except that's not really true, this game continuing to get bad coverage won't stop any of that stuff.

The only thing that will stop those things in general is when doing them doesn't make financial sense and this single game getting bad coverage isn't going to change that.

That's not to say that bad things shouldn't be reported on, its just that you shouldn't get your hopes up that its going to change anything.

Except it is true.

Look at what happened with Battlefront 2. EA had to basically shut down their monetisation for a long period of time, then completely change the way a fundamental part of the game functioned, all because of the continued public backlash that people kept up rather than just going quiet about.

Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
HSH28
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Fallout 76 is the score it wishes it had on metacritic
by HSH28 » Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:11 am

Lagamorph wrote:Except it is true.

Look at what happened with Battlefront 2. EA had to basically shut down their monetisation for a long period of time, then completely change the way a fundamental part of the game functioned, all because of the continued public backlash that people kept up rather than just going quiet about.


But it hasn't stopped devs and publishers making games with loot boxes in them or releasing games which are broken.

There will always be financial reasons to release games like this and shouting about it isn't going to make those reasons go away.


Return to “Games”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: BAKA, Google [Bot] and 54 guests