Brexit Thread 2

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How would you vote if we had to vote again?

Leave
11
7%
Remain
141
93%
 
Total votes: 152
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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Jenuall » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:39 pm

Hexx wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Name one country where just printing more money has been as beneficial as you claim it will be.


The Weimar Republic.

And now Germany is one of the strongest economies in Europe!

Coincidence?

They went one further than printing money though, pushing through with full on redenomination.

Bring on the PensionPound as the new saviour currency of post-Brexit Britain! :lol:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:52 pm

BID0 wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:I love this mythical universe you're talking about where Jeremy Corbyn wins a general election. He should be a million points ahead of the current Tories and he's not. He ain't winning gooseberry fool.


If we have a hard Brexit and a massive financial crash then he has a chance of winning the next election. If the economy absolutely tanks then the Tories may well be gone.

But that is not going to be a good thing for him. He will be unable to implement many of his policies due to a lack of funds and he will plunge the country into even deeper financial trouble for the plans that he does try and implement. That will kill off Labour for another 10-15 years.

A country that can print its own money can't have a lack of funds as we saw during the last financial crisis.

Plus it would be an investment rather than an expense. An investment generates money over the long term.

So it wouldn't be impossible to have the money to invest whatever the economy was like. It would be absolute gooseberry fool for the economy for decades however.


So we enter a self imposed economic downturn by leaving the EU. We then spend a fortune and pay for it by printing more and more money.

What can go wrong? :lol:

I'm not sure, I'm not good enough with maths to model an entire economy. 99.999999% likely bad for us yes. But I would think by now we have all accepted that's going to happen whatever with Brexit.


Brexit will be bad but just printing loads more money would only make it worse.

short term worse, potential for better long term.

not doing it at all and continue the cutting we have been doing... short term "better" but worse long term.

Zimbawee is hardly a good comparison Laga but you already knew that :fp: sometimes it's like reading The Sun when you read your comments

Zimbabwe is a perfect comparison. A country that was doing incredibly well economically that then suddenly started to experience significant problems due to awful leadership that put itself before the country and austerity programs that completely killed economic growth and then to try and pay off debt and fund itself just started printing more and more money.

Name one country where just printing more money has been as beneficial as you claim it will be.

You’ve just described the Conservative party. Printing money and investing it is completely different to printing money and giving it to rich people and carrying out austerity

Pretty much every country after the last wars had to create money to invest as they were all bankrupt. Iceland recently. Japan and Germany are good examples of investing in bankrupt economies

If you’re bankrupt you can’t carry out more austerity and you have no assets to sell to generate short term wealth

No, I just described what happened in Zimbabwe in the 1980's

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Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
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Hexx
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Hexx » Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Jenuall wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:Name one country where just printing more money has been as beneficial as you claim it will be.


The Weimar Republic.

And now Germany is one of the strongest economies in Europe!

Coincidence?

They went one further than printing money though, pushing through with full on redenomination.

Bring on the PensionPound as the new saviour currency of post-Brexit Britain! :lol:


Nerd :roll:

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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Rocsteady » Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:06 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
BID0 wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:I love this mythical universe you're talking about where Jeremy Corbyn wins a general election. He should be a million points ahead of the current Tories and he's not. He ain't winning gooseberry fool.


If we have a hard Brexit and a massive financial crash then he has a chance of winning the next election. If the economy absolutely tanks then the Tories may well be gone.

But that is not going to be a good thing for him. He will be unable to implement many of his policies due to a lack of funds and he will plunge the country into even deeper financial trouble for the plans that he does try and implement. That will kill off Labour for another 10-15 years.

A country that can print its own money can't have a lack of funds as we saw during the last financial crisis.

Plus it would be an investment rather than an expense. An investment generates money over the long term.

So it wouldn't be impossible to have the money to invest whatever the economy was like. It would be absolute gooseberry fool for the economy for decades however.


So we enter a self imposed economic downturn by leaving the EU. We then spend a fortune and pay for it by printing more and more money.

What can go wrong? :lol:

I'm not sure, I'm not good enough with maths to model an entire economy. 99.999999% likely bad for us yes. But I would think by now we have all accepted that's going to happen whatever with Brexit.


Brexit will be bad but just printing loads more money would only make it worse.

short term worse, potential for better long term.

not doing it at all and continue the cutting we have been doing... short term "better" but worse long term.

Zimbawee is hardly a good comparison Laga but you already knew that :fp: sometimes it's like reading The Sun when you read your comments

Zimbabwe is a perfect comparison. A country that was doing incredibly well economically that then suddenly started to experience significant problems due to awful leadership that put itself before the country and austerity programs that completely killed economic growth and then to try and pay off debt and fund itself just started printing more and more money.

Name one country where just printing more money has been as beneficial as you claim it will be.

Zimbabwe is a terrible example as it's nothing like Britain in terms of structure, size or global position.

Having said that, the idea we can print money to buy our way out of trouble is ridiculous. A small program could be realistic but our currency is already horribly devalued and the markets aren't going to look favourably on any such measure.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:33 am



“What do we want?”
“Parliamentary sovereignty!”
“When do we want it?”
“Errm only when it agrees with us”

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Squinty » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:54 am

This has been the same outcry when parliament does anything against Brexit.

They voted for sovereignty. This is it in action. strawberry floating buffoons.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:03 am

Squinty wrote:This has been the same outcry when parliament does anything against Brexit.

They voted for sovereignty. This is it in action. strawberry floating buffoons.


They voted for sovereignty but only after we have left the EU. :lol:

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Peter Crisp » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:49 am

It infuriates me no end when we constantly get told Brexit is "The will of the people!" when they won the referendum by a few percent and people are allowed to change their mind on stuff.
If they'd won by 70% then yeah, it would be the will of the people but having such a slim margin of victory and now we find out leaving the EU is going to be a bit of a bugger and be less awesome than we were told to expect some of the people who voted for Brexit are bound to have changed their mind.

I think a second referendum is pretty much the only way forward now as if we still vote for Brexit despite it being obviously a terrible idea then fine let the will of the people win but I have a feeling now remain will win by quite a large margin and we can all end this debate (I know the brexiteers will moan about this forever but we'll just ignore them) and get on with actually arguing about normal political issues like why my local train station didn't have a lift installed recently when it was upgraded so it's impossible for anyone in a wheelchair to use.

That sort of stuff.

jiggles wrote:Nobody with a VR headset is going to be using it regularly this time next year, let alone in 4 years time.


Posted 16th March 2016. Let's see.
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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Squinty » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:26 pm

I hate that term as well. It's the will of voters, which was a minimal difference in the result of a referendum mired in criminality and misleading information.

It should not be this high and mighty moral obligation to uphold it.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:54 pm

Squinty wrote:I hate that term as well. It's the will of voters, which was a minimal difference in the result of a referendum mired in criminality and misleading information.

It should not be this high and mighty moral obligation to uphold it.


It was the will of 37% of the electorate on one day in 2016.

It doesn’t matter that a good proportion of people might have changed their minds. It doesn’t matter that both Leave campaigns have been proven to have cheated. It doesn’t matter that a sizeable number of people have died since. It doesn’t matter that lots of people have turned 18 since. All that matters is that one day in history where a less than 2% swing would have resulted in a completely different result.

And they are the side that say they love democracy. They just don’t want anybody to ever vote again on the issue. They don’t want Parliament to vote on the issue.

Wankers.

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Cuttooth » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:58 pm

Squinty wrote:I hate that term as well. It's the will of voters, which was a minimal difference in the result of a referendum mired in criminality and misleading information.

It should not be this high and mighty moral obligation to uphold it.

The way MPs were scared shitless of this mandate enough to agree to Article 50 being invoked without proper consultation was embarrassing.

It should be considered the defining point of the uselessness and cowardice of this Parliament to not be able to tell the British public the truth it might not want to hear.

David Lammy's speech yesterday was excellent in trying to counter that.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:17 pm

Cuttooth wrote:David Lammy's speech yesterday was excellent in trying to counter that.


I am more impressed with Lammy every time I hear him speak. He is one of the voices of reason on Windrush, Grenfell and Brexit. I hope he gets a more high profile role in a future Labour shadow cabinet/government.

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Rex Kramer » Fri Jan 11, 2019 1:23 pm

Lammy is a fantastic conviction politician, he believes passionately in his position and transmits that perfectly. I think this probably means though that he'll never hit the heights, his beliefs will enrage as many people as they will inspire. But maybe, like Thatcher, a moment will arise in politics where his views align with the majority. Hopefully, as unlike Thatcher, he seems to have a heart.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:40 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:Lammy is a fantastic conviction politician, he believes passionately in his position and transmits that perfectly. I think this probably means though that he'll never hit the heights, his beliefs will enrage as many people as they will inspire. But maybe, like Thatcher, a moment will arise in politics where his views align with the majority. Hopefully, as unlike Thatcher, he seems to have a heart.


Yeah it is a shame but I think you are probably right. Hopefully a future Labour leader ignores the gammon that get enraged by Lammy and gives him one of the top roles, he is the sort of decent and sensible politician that we desperately need at the moment.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Squinty » Fri Jan 11, 2019 6:46 pm

Rumours now going around of an article 50 extension. I will laugh my strawberry floating balls off if that happens.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Drumstick » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:01 pm

I would laugh even harder if Tusk and Juncker turned around and gave us the middle finger. In a way I hope they do because that's what our government deserve.

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
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more heat than light
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by more heat than light » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:21 pm

Another can kick? Well I for one am shocked.

jawafour wrote:You definitely have the biggest one, mhtl - it's strawberry-floatin' massive!
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 11, 2019 7:47 pm

I can't see the EU granting an extension for any reason beyond "We want to hold a 2nd referendum where remain is one of the options"
And for that the EU will demand a legally binding date for it to be held by.

May can't even ask for one on the grounds of getting the withdrawal agreement through parliament since even if her deal did pass somehow, it's no longer the agreement the EU agreed to since it has that backstop veto.

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Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Sat Jan 12, 2019 1:07 pm


Lagamorph's Underwater Photography Thread
Zellery wrote:Good post Lagamorph.
Turboman wrote:Lagomorph..... Is ..... Right
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KK
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by KK » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:48 pm

Brexit dominating the Sunday papers:








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