Brexit Thread 2

[Lex-Man]

They could impose the tariffs surely, but not put apparatus in place to enforce it?

EDIT: and in terms of the immigration issue, I haven't seen any option, deal or not, that wouldn't stop it being an open border anyway.

The majority of Leave voters voted for stronger borders and the solution now is to plunge the country into chaos and leave the ONLY border open?

In theory I guess you could impose the tariffs but not carry out any checks. But that’s not really reassuring, what about smuggling? What if the EU standards on food/electricals end up lower than ours? What if the Sun/Mail are fed up with Romanians “flooding” across the border and into the UK?

What if the WTO sees through that blatant cheat.

We’ll just walk away, they need us more than we need them!

The WTO might shut down in December if Trump doesn't allow new judges to be appointed. Sooner if a judge recuses themselves.

[Moggy]

They could impose the tariffs surely, but not put apparatus in place to enforce it?

EDIT: and in terms of the immigration issue, I haven't seen any option, deal or not, that wouldn't stop it being an open border anyway.

The majority of Leave voters voted for stronger borders and the solution now is to plunge the country into chaos and leave the ONLY border open?

In theory I guess you could impose the tariffs but not carry out any checks. But that’s not really reassuring, what about smuggling? What if the EU standards on food/electricals end up lower than ours? What if the Sun/Mail are fed up with Romanians “flooding” across the border and into the UK?

What if the WTO sees through that blatant cheat.

We’ll just walk away, they need us more than we need them!

The WTO might shut down in December if Trump doesn't allow new judges to be appointed. Sooner if a judge recuses themselves.

That’ll be great for us when we are scrabbling around for trade deals and anyone can impose any tariffs they like against us.

[captain red dog]

They could impose the tariffs surely, but not put apparatus in place to enforce it?

EDIT: and in terms of the immigration issue, I haven't seen any option, deal or not, that wouldn't stop it being an open border anyway.

The majority of Leave voters voted for stronger borders and the solution now is to plunge the country into chaos and leave the ONLY border open?

In theory I guess you could impose the tariffs but not carry out any checks. But that’s not really reassuring, what about smuggling? What if the EU standards on food/electricals end up lower than ours? What if the Sun/Mail are fed up with Romanians “flooding” across the border and into the UK?

Well no deal currently on the table by the EU or anyone else would solve that border issue anyway regardless in terms of the immigration side of things. If you look at May's deal, there is still no mechanism to prevent EU nationals getting to the UK via the Irish border.

Amazing to see Guido moaning about the scrapping of the £65 fee for EU nationals too. Fortunately on their comments I'd say it was 95% calling him out on being a hypocrite given he has an EU passport. How on earth did that even get through without parliamentary scrutiny?

[Moggy]

They could impose the tariffs surely, but not put apparatus in place to enforce it?

EDIT: and in terms of the immigration issue, I haven't seen any option, deal or not, that wouldn't stop it being an open border anyway.

The majority of Leave voters voted for stronger borders and the solution now is to plunge the country into chaos and leave the ONLY border open?

In theory I guess you could impose the tariffs but not carry out any checks. But that’s not really reassuring, what about smuggling? What if the EU standards on food/electricals end up lower than ours? What if the Sun/Mail are fed up with Romanians “flooding” across the border and into the UK?

Well no deal currently on the table by the EU or anyone else would solve that border issue anyway regardless in terms of the immigration side of things. If you look at May's deal, there is still no mechanism to prevent EU nationals getting to the UK via the Irish border.

What? No deal doesn’t solve the border issue.

May’s main red line is immigration. It’s the only thing about Brexit she likes. That means controlling the only border we have.

Most Leavers want control over the borders/less immigration. That means controlling the only border we have.

EU rules state there has to be a border with countries not in the EU (or the EEA). That means Ireland will have to control the only border they have.

WTO rules states tariffs have to be set at the same levels for all countries. Saying “meh we’ll just ignore that border” is silly. That means controlling the only border we have.

And then the Good Friday Agreement says “you can’t have a border there”.

So, under no deal, do we break WTO rules or destroy the N Irish peace process?

[Tafdolphin]

Good news everyone!

https://www.dutchnews.nl/news/2019/01/s ... therlands/

Sony to shift European operations from Britain to the Netherlands

Sony is planning to merge its European business into its Dutch arm to soften the impact of a no-deal Brexit, Britain’s Telegraph newspaper said on Monday.

The unit will be responsible for the Tokyo giant’s electronics business in Europe and the deal will be completed on March 29 2019, the paper says. It bases its claims on merger documents. According to the Dutch chamber of trade documents, Sony Europe BV was established in May last year and the merger documents with Sony Europe Limited were deposited with the chamber in November.

The company’s statutory base is Hoofddorp, near Schiphol airport. Earlier, Japan’s Panasonic said it is moving its headquarters from London to the Netherlands. Big Japanese bank Mitsubishi UFG has also decided to make Amsterdam its new European base for investment banking.

[Garth]

twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1087433830649249792

twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1087445693118275585

twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1087449204769861632

twitter.com/Steven_Swinford/status/1087464235662221314

[Tineash]

twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1087449418876575750

twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1087468874054991872

One, two, three altogether now: "strawberry float Anna Soubry!"

[Garth]

twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1087475776151261185

twitter.com/BethRigby/status/1087435251486519300

twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1087486672000962560

[Return_of_the_STAR]

Interesting. So can the speaker choose not to allow that amendment to be heard or something?

[tolrag]

Why don't the UK government just do what Scotland did and say that they won't implement a border. As I understand it from that referendum, there is no obligation for us to implement a border on our side?

Because Scotland expected both countries to still be in the EU.

[Moggy]

twitter.com/mac_puck/status/1087365509509713920

Damn the EU and those 72 laws.

[poshrule_uk]

What do they mean by a free vote?

Basically if they go against party lines they suffer some kind of punishment?

[Lagamorph]

What do they mean by a free vote?

Basically if they go against party lines they suffer some kind of punishment?

Free vote means that the party won't invoke the whip to try and force MPs to vote how the leadership wants.

[Moggy]

What do they mean by a free vote?

Basically if they go against party lines they suffer some kind of punishment?

Yes, in theory they can be “punished” if they don’t follow party lines. A free vote allows them to vote however they wish. You have probably heard of “whips”, they are the people that the political party use to force through the party position. And all MPs love whips….

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whip_(politics)#United_Kingdom

[Peter Crisp]

So the whips don't actually walk about the commons with actual whips?
That's disappointing.

[Jenuall]

So the whips don't actually walk about the commons with actual whips?
That's disappointing.

Well, not when they're in session no. But after hours...

[Hexx]

twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1087691731095699456

[Camp Freddie]

The amendments in full:
https://twitter.com/ParlyApp/status/1087655337140908033

As usual, press reports put their own spin on them (or just republish the spin from the MP/Party press release) and get mixed up between Corbyn, Benn and Cooper when talking about the "Labour" amendment.

The Labour amendment (i.e Corbyn's supported by the shadow cabinet) is a bit wishy-washy, mentioning a vote on a deal/proposal but only if parliament approves a deal/proposal.
Since the point of having a vote is because parliamentary deadlock will prevent them from approving any type of deal - it's a bit of a trojan horse. The other part of the Labour amendment basically forces government to seek Labour's customs union and "best access" to the single market Brexit. And maybe catch a Unicorn.
It's written so that Labour can claim to support a public vote, while also claiming to support Brexit.

Cooper and Grieve amendments (take back control - of the house of commons from the government!) are the ones to watch, and Benn's (indicative votes on multiple Brexit options) would be good too.
IMO, Greive's stands a better chance than Cooper's but either would allow alternative brexit plans to be debated.
ReevesCreasy's won't pass, but it's good that someone is talking about citizen's assemblies. It worked in Ireland but I think its too late to help us.
Reeves' is trying to force the government to request an Art.50 extension in the event of no deal, so that might get some cross-party support.

[Moggy]

twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1087691731095699456

2016: Let’s give Parliament full sovereignty!

2019: Let’s beg the Polish government to veto so that we can overrule Parliament!

[Blue Eyes]

Taking back control!!1!1!!