Brexit Thread 2

[Qikz]

Giving people an option to strawberry float themselves over is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

[Rex Kramer]

I don't see a problem with including no deal as I can only see it splitting the leave vote.

[Moggy]

I don't see a problem with including no deal as I can only see it splitting the leave vote.

I can see the logic.

Remain v Deal v No Deal splits the Leave vote and means Remain wins.

Remain v Deal probably means a Remain win but I wouldn’t be overconfident.

Deal v No Deal would mean the Deal wins but would be massively unpopular.

Remain v No Deal should mean a comfortable Remain win.

I’d be confident that No Deal cannot win, but it would be a very big gamble.

[Squinty]

Giving people an option to strawberry float themselves over is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Brexit in a nutshell.

[Meep]

Giving people an option to strawberry float themselves over is the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

Brexit in a nutshell.

The Conservative party in a nutshell.

[KK]

Labour hints towards backing Brexit deal without promise of referendum

Shadow minister says talks productive and government showing willingness to compromise

Labour is prepared to sign up to a Brexit deal with the government without the promise of a referendum attached if cross-party talks make significant progress in the coming days, one of the party’s negotiators has said.

Rebecca Long-Bailey, the shadow business secretary, has been attending the negotiations alongside the shadow chancellor, John McDonnell, and the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer.

Many at Westminster believe the talks, convened by Theresa May after her deal was rejected three times and due to resume this week, are destined to fail.

But Long-Bailey insisted negotiations had been productive and “gone into a lot of detail”; and hinted that the government was signalling a willingness to compromise on some issues, including workers’ rights.

“There has been movement in specific areas – we’ve had fantastic discussions on workers’ rights, for example, and the government seems quite amenable to moving towards what I’ve been asking for. We’re waiting at the moment to see if that turns into pens on paper,” she told Sky News’s Sophy Ridge.

Asked if a second Brexit referendum was a “red line” for Labour in the talks, Long-Bailey said: “I wouldn’t couch it in terms of a second referendum; but our party policy has always been that firstly we want to get a Brexit deal that puts our economy and living standards first and protects our environmental protections, workplace protections, health and safety standards.”

“We want a customs union arrangement in order to keep our borders open, so that our manufacturing industry isn’t detrimentally affected, and we keep the movement of goods flowing as freely as possible. And we want a strong single market relationship.”

She added: “If we don’t get a deal that satisfies those objectives – if it’s a damaging deal, a damaging Tory Brexit deal, or there’s a risk of us moving towards a no deal – in that circumstance, we’ve said that all options should be on the table, and that includes campaigning for a public vote.”

Her careful recital of the party’s conference motion will infuriate MPs and activists pushing for Labour to make a referendum a central part of its policy platform for next month’s European parliament elections.

The manifesto for the European elections, which the government had hoped to cancel if it struck a deal swiftly enough, is due to be discussed at a meeting of Labour’s ruling National Executive Committee (NEC) on Tuesday.

The shadow cabinet is also expected to discuss the issue – and remains divided between advocates of a referendum, including Starmer and Emily Thornberry, and those who believe Labour should also try to appeal to disillusioned Conservative voters, by holding out the prospect of its own form of Brexit.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/20 ... referendum

[Moggy]

If true I hope Corbyn (because it’s mostly him rather than Labour) gets strawberry floating annihilated in the local and European elections.

[Lagamorph]

It's amazing how Corbyn can "stick to principles" except when they go against what he wants personally.

[Qikz]

Labour are idiots, there's an open goal of every single remain voter in the country and many others willing to back them if they support Europe and... they just won't? How strawberry floating stupid are the top brass of Labour, it's like they want the Tories to win.

[Moggy]

Labour are idiots, there's an open goal of every single remain voter in the country and many others willing to back them if they support Europe and... they just won't? How strawberry floating stupid are the top brass of Labour, it's like they want the Tories to win.

There’s a one word answer to all that.

Corbyn.

[That]

A socialist of any quality would not enable this lurch towards the far-right. It's mind-bogglingly bad praxis. Literally appeasing thick racists to own the libs.

I want to like Corbyn but this bizzaro-world policymaking makes it so difficult. It will damage them like the coalition damaged the Lib Dems, which is a literal crisis because apathy towards Labour could result in another 5 years of the Tories.

[Herdanos]

We're all voting Green right?

[more heat than light]

We're all voting Green right?

If you have any sense, yes.

[Drumstick]

Glorious Green Supremacy (tm).

[Moggy]

We're all voting Green right?

There doesn’t seem to be any choice.

Tory/Brexit/UKIP? Nah.

Labour/Lib Dem/Cuk? Nah.

It’s Green or independents for me I think. It’d probably be SNP if I was in Scotland.

[OrangeRKN]

Lib Dem in the local council (the main challenge to the Tories), Green in the EU. Then lots of sadness at Brexit party wins

[captain red dog]

I think the problem Corbyn has is that he is a socialist and despite how some on the right might feel, the EU is a capitalist system. So if he gets in, under EU membership he wouldn't be able to shift the country in as significant a way as would be necessary for him to create the socialist society his core supporters want.

That said, given the large scale assault by the tories on our existing socialist institutions and utilities, I'd probably lean more towards a Corbyn-socialism-lite under the EU, than another Tory term in Government.

I see a Tory Govt as a bigger threat to the national interest than the EU, and certainly a bigger threat than a Corbyn led Brexit.

[Moggy]

I think the problem Corbyn has is that he is a socialist and despite how some on the right might feel, the EU is a capitalist system. So if he gets in, under EU membership he wouldn't be able to shift the country in as significant a way as would be necessary for him to create the socialist society his core supporters want.

That said, given the large scale assault by the tories on our existing socialist institutions and utilities, I'd probably lean more towards a Corbyn-socialism-lite under the EU, than another Tory term in Government.

I see a Tory Govt as a bigger threat to the national interest than the EU, and certainly a bigger threat than a Corbyn led Brexit.

The problem Corbyn has is that he is a strawberry floating idiot that never moved on from the 1970s.

[Hexx]

twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1123134507505324032

[That]

I think the problem Corbyn has is that he is a socialist and despite how some on the right might feel, the EU is a capitalist system. So if he gets in, under EU membership he wouldn't be able to shift the country in as significant a way as would be necessary for him to create the socialist society his core supporters want.

If we're going to have a fundamentally liberal government & capitalist economy then EU membership offers us the best possible implementation of that. It is better to be under a centrist, egalitarian, internationalist umbrella than to be stuck alone on this island with far-right, conservative, xenophobic Tories.

I don't think the Labour Party (even under Corbyn's leadership) have plans to deliver anything more than social-democratic tweaks to liberal capitalism. That's a good step in a leftwards direction but it isn't socialism: they're talking about raising tax rates and buying rail franchises, not seizing the means of production and overthrowing the bourgeoisie. They aren't proposing any policies that don't exist elsewhere in EU member states. It is still better to be an EU member under that sort of government.

I can see why a Communist Party would want to leave the EU if they came to power, sure -- but even they wouldn't (or at least shouldn't!) want to leave the EU while hard-right neoliberals are in charge.