Brexit Thread 2

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How would you vote if we had to vote again?

Leave
12
7%
Remain
159
93%
 
Total votes: 171
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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Meep » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:07 pm

The problem with England is that they have never really suffered occupation or oppression since the middle-ages. This makes them different from most of the rest of post-war Europe and even the other parts of the UK, which have had to endure being almost entirely ruled from London until very recent devolution (yes, we have MPs, but with a tiny minority of them let's not pretend Westminster is anything other than English majority rule). The interesting thing about Brexiteers is that lot of the language they adopt is that of the oppressed ("freedom", "take back control"). I don't think that kind of language would be anywhere near as effective if modern England, and to a lesser extent the rest of the UK, had ever actually experienced real oppression because in that situation voters would be aware of how laughable the idea of the EU as an evil empire really is.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:37 pm

Meep wrote:The problem with England is that they have never really suffered occupation or oppression since the middle-ages.


William of Orange invaded and took over but we just pretended that it was a “glorious revolution” and rolled with it. And nothing bad ever came from it.... :shifty:

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Alvin Flummux
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Alvin Flummux » Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:59 pm

Meep wrote:The problem with England is that they have never really suffered occupation or oppression since the middle-ages. This makes them different from most of the rest of post-war Europe and even the other parts of the UK, which have had to endure being almost entirely ruled from London until very recent devolution (yes, we have MPs, but with a tiny minority of them let's not pretend Westminster is anything other than English majority rule). The interesting thing about Brexiteers is that lot of the language they adopt is that of the oppressed ("freedom", "take back control"). I don't think that kind of language would be anywhere near as effective if modern England, and to a lesser extent the rest of the UK, had ever actually experienced real oppression because in that situation voters would be aware of how laughable the idea of the EU as an evil empire really is.


Really makes you wish the Nazis had gone ahead and invaded.

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Call and Answer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Call and Answer » Fri Jan 18, 2019 10:46 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:Brexit will spell the end of the United Kingdom and probably Great Britain. The UK within 10 years, GB within 20.


Isn't Great Britain the landmass? Unless the Tories hope to nuke Offa's Dyke until Wales falls off. Or maybe fracking will create Hadrian's Wharf, where the North Sea and the Irish Sea meet just south of Dumfries.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Return_of_the_STAR » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:17 pm

Call and Answer wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:Brexit will spell the end of the United Kingdom and probably Great Britain. The UK within 10 years, GB within 20.


Isn't Great Britain the landmass? Unless the Tories hope to nuke Offa's Dyke until Wales falls off. Or maybe fracking will create Hadrian's Wharf, where the North Sea and the Irish Sea meet just south of Dumfries.


Great Britain refers to the countries on the British mainland (not N Ireland) whereas the UK refers to everything (incl N Ireland). At the Olympics and some major sporting events you may notice that we use Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than the United Kingdom.

Britain is used to refer to England and Wales, so no Scotland.

The British Isles refers to both Great Britain and Ireland.

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Call and Answer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Call and Answer » Sat Jan 19, 2019 9:50 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:Great Britain refers to the countries on the British mainland (not N Ireland) whereas the UK refers to everything (incl N Ireland). At the Olympics and some major sporting events you may notice that we use Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than the United Kingdom.


I was sure Great Britain was purely a geographical term, but after 10 minutes of googling it appears to be used both to refer to the united countries of England, Wales, and Scotland AND to the largest island within the British Isles. So there's that.

Douglas Adams wrote:I love deadlines. I like the whooshing sound they make as they fly by.
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Curls
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Curls » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:09 am

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Call and Answer wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:Brexit will spell the end of the United Kingdom and probably Great Britain. The UK within 10 years, GB within 20.


Isn't Great Britain the landmass? Unless the Tories hope to nuke Offa's Dyke until Wales falls off. Or maybe fracking will create Hadrian's Wharf, where the North Sea and the Irish Sea meet just south of Dumfries.


Great Britain refers to the countries on the British mainland (not N Ireland) whereas the UK refers to everything (incl N Ireland). At the Olympics and some major sporting events you may notice that we use Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than the United Kingdom.

Britain is used to refer to England and Wales, so no Scotland.

The British Isles refers to both Great Britain and Ireland.


Not sure if this is right.

Think of it like this

British Isles -The islands of brtiain and Ireland. And the diddy bits like isle of man too.
UK - the country. Including northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland and England.
Great Britain - The island on the right of the two. And the three countries of Wales, Scotland and England.

The British Empire - non existent.

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Squinty
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Squinty » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:54 am

I hope the car bomb in Derry isn't the prelude to something bigger.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:31 am

Squinty wrote:I hope the car bomb in Derry isn't the prelude to something bigger.


As far as I know we have no idea yet who did it’s it’s too early to judge motives or if this is the start of something. But you’re right that the fears are there, it seems unlikely that N Ireland will stay peaceful during a Brexit process that breaks the Good Friday Agreement.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Moggy » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:43 am

Image

:lol:

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Cuttooth » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:12 pm

twitter.com/rolandmcs/status/1086899951735574528



This thread is well worth a read on why the referendum has put us in this mess. Euroscepticism has never offered anything close to a constructive consensus on what their demands mean or even look like.

The message always has to be delivered in as simple terms as possible because the complexity of untangling thirty to forty years of European integration means your lifelong ideology requires a staggering amount of resources to see it through and just isn't worth it anymore.

It really annoys me how many people say they 'just want us to get on with it's or were annoyed we didn't fully leave the day after the referendum.

twitter.com/mudlarklives/status/1086619289422057472



Some nice Nazi style propaganda you got going there, "rural conservatives". :dread:

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Rex Kramer » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:38 pm

It's like the Khmer Rouge crossed with the women's institute.

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Dowbocop
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Dowbocop » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:43 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:It's like the Khmer Rouge crossed with the women's institute.

Jam and genocide.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lex-Man » Sun Jan 20, 2019 3:50 pm

Dowbocop wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:It's like the Khmer Rouge crossed with the women's institute.

Jam and genocide.


Finally something I can get behind.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Corazon de Leon » Sun Jan 20, 2019 4:16 pm

Moggy wrote:
Meep wrote:The problem with England is that they have never really suffered occupation or oppression since the middle-ages.


William of Orange invaded and took over but we just pretended that it was a “glorious revolution” and rolled with it. And nothing bad ever came from it.... :shifty:


:dread:

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by KK » Sun Jan 20, 2019 7:27 pm

Germans Send Love Letter on Brexit: Britain, Please Don’t Go

Britain’s withdrawal from the European Union has provoked months of bitter division, but on Friday there was a break in the routine: an outbreak of affection and good will.

In a tenderly written missive to Britons, more than two dozen leading figures in Germany — including Annegret Kramp-Karrenbauer, the favorite to become the country’s next chancellor — described their admiration for many things British, including its tea and beer, and their sorrow over the impending divorce.

“After the horrors of the Second World War, Britain did not give up on us,” said the open letter published in The Times, the British newspaper favored by the establishment. It emphasized Germany’s appreciation that it had been welcomed back as a sovereign nation after the conflict and as a European power.

“This we, as Germans, have not forgotten and we are grateful,” the letter went on, concluding that “Britons should know: From the bottom of our hearts, we want them to stay.”

Norbert Röttgen, head of the German Parliament’s Committee on Foreign Affairs, who co-wrote the letter, said the signers decided they needed to say something after this week’s defeat of the British prime minister’s Brexit proposal.

“The time was ripe to make sure that we raise our voice, and that we try to make it a German voice, to let the Brits know that while we fully respect what they decide, we do consider it a European affair,” Mr. Röttgen said. “We wanted to say what we feel, to express our convictions and our deep emotions.”

The intervention comes at a critical moment in Britain following the crushing rejection on Tuesday of Prime Minister Theresa May’s plan for withdrawal from the European Union, or Brexit. There is growing speculation that the deadlock could lead to a general election or a second referendum that might reverse the whole idea.

It is unclear whether a lovebomb from figures as varied as the Airbus chief, Thomas Enders, and the punk rock singer Campino will have much impact. But at least one signatory to the letter commands some name recognition in Britain: Jens Lehmann, the former goalkeeper of Germany’s national soccer team.

Behind the initiative lies concern in Berlin over the prospect that Britain may leave the European Union without an agreement, with economically damaging consequences for the entire continent.

While the European Union — and especially France — took a tough line in negotiating the withdrawal, Britain and Germany have often agreed on economic issues in Brussels. But Brexit is destined to change the internal balance within the European Union, removing a country that has often been useful to Berlin politically and a big financial contributor to the bloc.

Britons’ reaction to the letter was mixed, with some commenting on its folksy focus on the country’s “legendary black humor,” drinking tea with milk, Christmas pantomime and driving on the left.

As enemies in two world wars in the 20th century, the two countries have a complicated relationship. Germany’s affection for Britain is not always reciprocated, despite widespread respect for the German postwar economic miracle and its modern-day success.

Sporting rivalry is particularly fierce in soccer, where the record has at times been so grim for England that Gary Lineker, the TV host and former England international player, once described it as a game where “22 men chase a ball for 90 minutes and at the end, the Germans always win.”

Whether the intervention will help or hinder the pro-Europeans in Britain’s Brexit debate is a moot point, as the British are prickly about anything that could be construed as outside interference in political discussions.

Speaking to reporters in London, Tony Blair, the former prime minister, welcomed the letter, saying it redressed the impression that Brexit negotiations were frequently confrontational.

“A clear statement acknowledging what is clearly true — that it’s better for Europe as well as for Britain that we change Brexit — is important,” said Mr. Blair, who is arguing for a second Brexit referendum.

He added that he believed the initiative had come about because, with Parliament deadlocked, there was an increased possibility of a second referendum. However, he added, “If we do decide that we want to think again, I think it’s important that Europe indicates that its politics has changed in the last 30 months and that means particularly addressing the question of immigration.”

Those on the other side of the debate, of course, took the opposite view. One Brexit hard-liner in Parliament, John Redwood, wrote on Twitter that members of the German establishment had shown “their scorn for democracy,” were taking the British “for fools” and wanted to keep Britain in the European Union only because of its annual budget payments.

“The German establishment wants the UK to stay in the EU-they show their scorn for democracy by asking for that & take us for fools. They want the UK to keep on paying huge sums of money to help w/ the costs of their political & monetary union which we've never wanted to join.” - John Redwood

Mr. Röttgen dismissed such criticism as entirely predictable: “That this letter would be used and abused by those who are so desperate to leave, under any circumstance, that they reject the idea of reconsidering anything, this was quite clear.”

Though the letter sounded genuine and sincere, some Germans believe Britain has become such an awkward partner in the European Union that it is better outside the bloc.

When Andrea Nahles, one signer of the letter, wrote on Twitter this week of her regret at the implications of the defeat of Mrs. May’s plan, the response was mixed, and much less sentimental than the letter published on Friday.

A British TV news anchor, Matt Frei, suggested that the authentic view of Brexit in Germany might be a little less diplomatic. On Twitter he described a conversation in Berlin that drew a parallel to Prince Philip’s car accident this week.

“Overheard in a Berlin bakery,” he wrote, “Brexit is like a 97 year old royal behind the wheel. You know it’s a bad idea but are too polite to stop it.”

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/01/18/worl ... ion=Footer

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Cuttooth
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Cuttooth » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:43 pm

twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1087064493472038912



May's given up on those cross-party talks that put country first then?

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:49 pm

Cuttooth wrote:

twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1087064493472038912



May's given up on those cross-party talks that put country first then?


Maybe she just has a bad memory and keeps forgetting what the EU keep saying to her everytime she suggests removing the backstop.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Errkal » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:52 pm

Dumb ass useless strawberry floating moron bitch.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:52 pm

Surely we can remove the backstop by having a longer transition period with it written that we enter the transition period for say up to three years with the intention of agreeing a free trade deal before that time is up. If a deal is not agreed then both sides have the option of either terminating or extending the transition period. That must be the best compromise between no deal and the backstop option.

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