Brexit Thread 2

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

How would you vote if we had to vote again?

Leave
12
7%
Remain
159
93%
 
Total votes: 171
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Rocking Around the Mini E
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Rocking Around the Mini E » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:20 pm

Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:Corbyn still believes in unicorns. :fp:

To be absolutely fair to him, I can see the reasoning that every single avenue needs to be explored before calling for a second referendum as that will immediately cause a massive backlash and calls of "betrayal of democracy". Just like with the vote of no confidence in the government, the timing for calling for that has to be absolutely spot on.

Had he gone for the VOC before Christmas it would have been lost. Just with Rees-Mogg and his confidence motion in May, you can't shoot your load too early so to speak.

If he can force an election and win a majority (debatable) then he can also be confident that when he concludes his negotiations he can then put a referendum bill through parliament, presumably for either "new deal or remain".

That's how I see it possibly going, but he has to get the timing right to call for the referendum. If they don't get a majority in a GE, then again he needs to time that call right but with the Tories further weekend then the opportunity is there.


I was referring to his interview on Marr this morning where he said he believed he could negotiate a better deal and refused to acknowledge that we couldn’t have all the benefits of membership while being out.

Pure unicorn cakeism.


It's easy to promise things you know you aren't going to have to deliver.

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Partridge Iciclebubbles
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:29 pm

Mini E wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:Corbyn still believes in unicorns. :fp:

To be absolutely fair to him, I can see the reasoning that every single avenue needs to be explored before calling for a second referendum as that will immediately cause a massive backlash and calls of "betrayal of democracy". Just like with the vote of no confidence in the government, the timing for calling for that has to be absolutely spot on.

Had he gone for the VOC before Christmas it would have been lost. Just with Rees-Mogg and his confidence motion in May, you can't shoot your load too early so to speak.

If he can force an election and win a majority (debatable) then he can also be confident that when he concludes his negotiations he can then put a referendum bill through parliament, presumably for either "new deal or remain".

That's how I see it possibly going, but he has to get the timing right to call for the referendum. If they don't get a majority in a GE, then again he needs to time that call right but with the Tories further weekend then the opportunity is there.


I was referring to his interview on Marr this morning where he said he believed he could negotiate a better deal and refused to acknowledge that we couldn’t have all the benefits of membership while being out.

Pure unicorn cakeism.


It's easy to promise things you know you aren't going to have to deliver.


Yep.

Trouble for Corbyn is lots of people will remember this bullshit.

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satriales
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by satriales » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:14 pm

Mini E wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:Corbyn still believes in unicorns. :fp:

To be absolutely fair to him, I can see the reasoning that every single avenue needs to be explored before calling for a second referendum as that will immediately cause a massive backlash and calls of "betrayal of democracy". Just like with the vote of no confidence in the government, the timing for calling for that has to be absolutely spot on.

Had he gone for the VOC before Christmas it would have been lost. Just with Rees-Mogg and his confidence motion in May, you can't shoot your load too early so to speak.

If he can force an election and win a majority (debatable) then he can also be confident that when he concludes his negotiations he can then put a referendum bill through parliament, presumably for either "new deal or remain".

That's how I see it possibly going, but he has to get the timing right to call for the referendum. If they don't get a majority in a GE, then again he needs to time that call right but with the Tories further weekend then the opportunity is there.


I was referring to his interview on Marr this morning where he said he believed he could negotiate a better deal and refused to acknowledge that we couldn’t have all the benefits of membership while being out.

Pure unicorn cakeism.


It's easy to promise things you know you aren't going to have to deliver.

I think there's also a bit of not wanting to go into negotiations having already admitted we won't get everything we want.

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Partridge Iciclebubbles
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Partridge Iciclebubbles » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:17 pm

satriales wrote:
Mini E wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:Corbyn still believes in unicorns. :fp:

To be absolutely fair to him, I can see the reasoning that every single avenue needs to be explored before calling for a second referendum as that will immediately cause a massive backlash and calls of "betrayal of democracy". Just like with the vote of no confidence in the government, the timing for calling for that has to be absolutely spot on.

Had he gone for the VOC before Christmas it would have been lost. Just with Rees-Mogg and his confidence motion in May, you can't shoot your load too early so to speak.

If he can force an election and win a majority (debatable) then he can also be confident that when he concludes his negotiations he can then put a referendum bill through parliament, presumably for either "new deal or remain".

That's how I see it possibly going, but he has to get the timing right to call for the referendum. If they don't get a majority in a GE, then again he needs to time that call right but with the Tories further weekend then the opportunity is there.


I was referring to his interview on Marr this morning where he said he believed he could negotiate a better deal and refused to acknowledge that we couldn’t have all the benefits of membership while being out.

Pure unicorn cakeism.


It's easy to promise things you know you aren't going to have to deliver.

I think there's also a bit of not wanting to go into negotiations having already admitted we won't get everything we want.


There are no other negotiations, we have 75 days to go. Even with an extension (and the EU would be unlikely to grant one for an election) there isn’t time to renegotiate the deal or another deal.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Errkal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:44 pm

Moggy wrote:
satriales wrote:
Mini E wrote:
Moggy wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Moggy wrote:Corbyn still believes in unicorns. :fp:

To be absolutely fair to him, I can see the reasoning that every single avenue needs to be explored before calling for a second referendum as that will immediately cause a massive backlash and calls of "betrayal of democracy". Just like with the vote of no confidence in the government, the timing for calling for that has to be absolutely spot on.

Had he gone for the VOC before Christmas it would have been lost. Just with Rees-Mogg and his confidence motion in May, you can't shoot your load too early so to speak.

If he can force an election and win a majority (debatable) then he can also be confident that when he concludes his negotiations he can then put a referendum bill through parliament, presumably for either "new deal or remain".

That's how I see it possibly going, but he has to get the timing right to call for the referendum. If they don't get a majority in a GE, then again he needs to time that call right but with the Tories further weekend then the opportunity is there.


I was referring to his interview on Marr this morning where he said he believed he could negotiate a better deal and refused to acknowledge that we couldn’t have all the benefits of membership while being out.

Pure unicorn cakeism.


It's easy to promise things you know you aren't going to have to deliver.

I think there's also a bit of not wanting to go into negotiations having already admitted we won't get everything we want.


There are no other negotiations, we have 75 days to go. Even with an extension (and the EU would be unlikely to grant one for an election) there isn’t time to renegotiate the deal or another deal.


And the EU said this deal is it.

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Cuđđoolph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Cuđđoolph » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:50 pm

Errkal wrote:But the EU already said no other deal is there to make, it’s this or nothing. So anything other than saying “what we have or out” is just wasting even more time.

The time to fight this gooseberry fool was over a year ago when he was giving may a free pass to do strawberry float all.

There's no further deal for the EU within the red lines May has set out, obviously most notably being ceasing freedom of movement.

There's likely room to negotiate a very soft Brexit but the Tories aren't willing to do that (their rabid membership wouldn't allow it).

Unfortunately, Corbyn has expressed the same basic view that freedom of movement should end so I'm not sure what improved deal he thinks he could get with the EU. He also doesn't seem to really have a great grasp of the different elements of EU membership or other European institutions, and how they do and don't interact. That's something he shares with many people it seems, but particularly Leavers who have wanted to quit the EU for so long without even understanding what it's about and what leaving actually entails.

The negotiations probably wouldn't be quite as embarrassing as Davis and Raab playing everything up for the cameras though.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lex-Man » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm

You could try and push the whole "if you can't get a job within 3 months or support yourself you can't stay" stuff as an end to free movement. Don't know how well it'd work though.

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DML
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by DML » Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:59 pm

We could have had a better deal without Mays ridiculous (and racist) red lines, but now she's spaffed our only shot at a 'good' deal, so now there is no other deal to be made.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by KK » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:13 pm

Where the press now stands:

Daily Mail: May’s Deal
Mail on Sunday: May’s Deal
The Times: May’s Deal
FT: May’s Deal
The Express: May’s Deal
Guido (website): May’s Deal
The Telegraph: No Deal
The Sun: No Deal
The Spectator (magazine): No Deal
The Guardian: Second Referendum
London Evening Standard: Second Referendum
Independent: Second Referendum
The Mirror: New general election

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:55 pm

I'm kind of surprised The Times and FT are backing May's deal over a 2nd referendum.

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Peter Crisp
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Peter Crisp » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:36 pm

What the UK should do is just do a week long poll here on Grcade about Brexit and then claim it's "The will of the people!".

They can trust us to make the best decision.

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Return_of_the_STAR
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Return_of_the_STAR » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:37 pm

The Italians asked to apply to stay in post-Brexit UK

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-46836957

This story is about Italian immigrants to the UK in the 1950s. I'm confused as to why there would be any confusion over their status in the UK as they came here decades before the UK joined the EC, let alone the EU.

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mcjihge2
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by mcjihge2 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:00 pm

KK wrote:Where the press now stands:

Daily Mail: May’s Deal
Mail on Sunday: May’s Deal
The Times: May’s Deal
FT: May’s Deal
The Express: May’s Deal
Guido (website): May’s Deal
The Telegraph: No Deal
The Sun: No Deal
The Spectator (magazine): No Deal
The Guardian: Second Referendum
London Evening Standard: Second Referendum
Independent: Second Referendum
The Mirror: New general election


Isnt stay an option?

And what are the choices for a second referendum? - May deal, No deal, Stay?

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Errkal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:01 pm

It is an option, but we are pretending it isn’t because reasons.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Glowy69 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:48 pm

So, everyone, as nuclear D day looms, my question is.

If the deal is voted down.
And no deal is voted down

What happens.

Fabian Delph is a banana split.

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Errkal
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Errkal » Sun Jan 13, 2019 8:27 pm

Glowy69 wrote:So, everyone, as nuclear D day looms, my question is.

If the deal is voted down.
And no deal is voted down

What happens.


No deal can’t really be voted down, it’s sort of what happens if no one sorts their gooseberry fool.

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KK
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by KK » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:20 pm

AfD party votes to campaign for German exit from EU

Far-right nationalists decide for first time to seek ‘Dexit’ if bloc does not meet demands

The German far-right party Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) has voted to campaign for the country’s exit from the European Union if its demand for reforms within the bloc are not met.

The decision on Sunday marks the first time any party has called for “Dexit” – a German departure from the EU in the mould of Brexit.

If the EU is not reshaped in line with the party’s ideas “in an appropriate timeframe”, Germany must leave the bloc, according to the draft manifesto for the forthcoming European parliament elections agreed by delegates at a party congress in the eastern state of Saxony.

Congress attendees also voted through a call to abolish the European parliament – the very body that AfD candidates will be campaigning to join this spring.

“We see nation states as having the exclusive competence to make laws,” the text said, attacking the “751 privileged members” of the present European house.

While both demands are now in the draft manifesto, a final vote later on Sunday will adopt or reject the entire campaign package. Elections for the European parliament will take place in May.

More: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... pean-union

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Dannie Lennox_
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Dannie Lennox_ » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:20 pm

KK wrote:Where the press now stands:

Daily Mail: May’s Deal
Mail on Sunday: May’s Deal
The Times: May’s Deal
FT: May’s Deal
The Express: May’s Deal
Guido (website): May’s Deal
The Telegraph: No Deal
The Sun: No Deal
The Spectator (magazine): No Deal
The Guardian: Second Referendum
London Evening Standard: Second Referendum
Independent: Second Referendum
The Mirror: New general election


Why is Guido on this list? Have you copy pasted this from somewhere? If so, that somewhere is trying to normalise extreme right wing views by sneaking in their little hate site and referring to it as part of "the press"

(Though I'm well aware there are other papers on that list that are extreme right wing)

EDIT: The Spectator are on there too but not an equivalent from the other viewpoint e.g. New Statesman. So I'm assuming you've made this list yourself?

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by Lagamorph » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:26 pm

KK wrote:
AfD party votes to campaign for German exit from EU

Far-right nationalists decide for first time to seek ‘Dexit’ if bloc does not meet demands

The German far-right party Alternative für Deutschland (AfD) has voted to campaign for the country’s exit from the European Union if its demand for reforms within the bloc are not met.

The decision on Sunday marks the first time any party has called for “Dexit” – a German departure from the EU in the mould of Brexit.

If the EU is not reshaped in line with the party’s ideas “in an appropriate timeframe”, Germany must leave the bloc, according to the draft manifesto for the forthcoming European parliament elections agreed by delegates at a party congress in the eastern state of Saxony.

Congress attendees also voted through a call to abolish the European parliament – the very body that AfD candidates will be campaigning to join this spring.

“We see nation states as having the exclusive competence to make laws,” the text said, attacking the “751 privileged members” of the present European house.

While both demands are now in the draft manifesto, a final vote later on Sunday will adopt or reject the entire campaign package. Elections for the European parliament will take place in May.

More: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/ ... pean-union

Yeah good luck with that.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 2
by KK » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:36 pm

Quantum Name wrote:Why is Guido on this list? Have you copy pasted this from somewhere? If so, that somewhere is trying to normalise extreme right wing views by sneaking in their little hate site and referring to it as part of "the press"

(Though I'm well aware there are other papers on that list that are extreme right wing)

EDIT: The Spectator are on there too but not an equivalent from the other viewpoint e.g. New Statesman. So I'm assuming you've made this list yourself?

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