Brexit Thread 2

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **captain red dog** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:32 pm

This whole Tommy Robinson thing is such an own goal for UKIP. Regardless of what you think of Robinson, he is completely tainted by the BNP and EDL membership. By bringing him in, Batten is appealing to the people who used to vote BNP which for the vast, vast majority of the voting public is totally unpalatable.

They have become so obsessed with their YouTube members that they have lost all sense of reality.

Farage could quite easily start a new party and take a large slice of their vote.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Meep** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:34 pm

Farage is surprised to fiud UKIP full of nationalist and racists. The 2018 award for complete lack of self-awareness goes to...

The problem with dogwhistle politics is that it's an entry level drug. Don't come crying when people start moving onto the hard stuff.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Garth** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:35 pm

On that last vote, DUP voted with the government as well as 4 Labour rebels and they still lost! That's a lot of Tory rebels.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Moggy** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:35 pm

captain red dog wrote:This whole Tommy Robinson thing is such an own goal for UKIP. Regardless of what you think of Robinson, he is completely tainted by the BNP and EDL membership. By bringing him in, Batten is appealing to the people who used to vote BNP which for the vast, vast majority of the voting public is totally unpalatable.

They have become so obsessed with their YouTube members that they have lost all sense of reality.

Farage could quite easily start a new party and take a large slice of their vote.

I’m not sure it makes that much difference. Their vote share collapsed at the last election, it’ll stay low if we leave the EU, it’ll rise sharply if we Remain.

UKIP has been the mainstream racist party for years. Farage was just good at hiding it.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Lex-Man** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:43 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Garth of Christmas Future wrote:Farage has quit UKIP:

twitter.com/LBC/status/1070017173047906306

Basically Farage liked it when they were posh racists, it’s not so fun for him now working class racists are joining in.

I can't believe you can be too racist for Nigel Farage!

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Moggy** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:45 pm

lex-man wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Garth of Christmas Future wrote:Farage has quit UKIP:

twitter.com/LBC/status/1070017173047906306

Basically Farage liked it when they were posh racists, it’s not so fun for him now working class racists are joining in.

I can't believe you can be too racist for Nigel Farage!

Not too racist, too working class.

If Yaxley-Lennon had been educated at Eton, Farage would welcome him.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Rex Kramer** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:17 pm

So, does the Grieve amendment stick a nail in the coffin of a hard Brexit?

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **DML** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:19 pm

Rex Kramer wrote:So, does the Grieve amendment stick a nail in the coffin of a hard Brexit?

The final nail. Unless you believe a Remain supporting parliament will CHOOSE no deal as it's next move. A Labour led movement...

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Lex-Man** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:20 pm

It seems like it's the end of Brexit. If May's plan fails (which looks all but guaranteed) and the EU refuses to negotiate anymore (which they've promised to do) then I don't see what other outcome there could be.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Rex Kramer** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:26 pm

Unless some kind of hard Brexit party rises from the ashes of the Tory party?

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Return_of_the_STAR** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:26 pm

What i don't understand about this amendment is that not only is it a defeat for May but surely it's a defeat for Corbyn. I've just watched an hour of the debate and he stood there and said that he does not support another referendum when asked by IDS. But his party have just overwhelmingly back an amendment to include the possibility of another vote.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Alvin Flummux** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:28 pm

He's a banana split, STAR. A massive, bewildering banana split.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Lagamorph** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:16 pm

We're now in a position where the leaders of both the government and the opposition have completely lost control of their parties.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Garth** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:23 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:I've just watched an hour of the debate and he stood there and said that he does not support another referendum when asked by IDS. But his party have just overwhelmingly back an amendment to include the possibility of another vote.

I think he just said a general election was their priority rather than answering the question directly (though he probably would prefer to avoid a second referendum if possible). The Labour membership agreed that their policy is to push for a general election now, and if they can't get that then back another referendum with remain as an option. Their voters and their constituencies are still divided between remain and leave, but their MPs appear to be largely united currently over trying to avoid no deal, their distaste for May's deal, and they're no doubt happy to see the Tory party falling into chaos too.

I'm a bit worried that a second referendum looks pretty risky going by the recent polls, the majority for remain or leave appears to change depending on how the question is asked and it's still disturbingly close too. Another poll yesterday suggests the majority of people don't even want a second referendum. If the public votes to leave again (or even hands us a bloody no deal Brexit) I'd probably give up on the UK and join the campaign for a united Ireland :shifty:

Maybe more gooseberry fool needs to hit the fan for the British public to move more in favour of remaining.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **satriales** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:33 pm

Return_of_the_STAR wrote:What i don't understand about this amendment is that not only is it a defeat for May but surely it's a defeat for Corbyn. I've just watched an hour of the debate and he stood there and said that he does not support another referendum when asked by IDS. But his party have just overwhelmingly back an amendment to include the possibility of another vote.

He didn't say that he doesn't support another referendum, just that their priority is to try and get a better deal, and then a general election and then all other options are still on the table. Labour can't really just come out in support of a people's vote right now because doing so would push their leave voters over to the Conservatives/UKIP without attracting many new voters. It is rather annoying but at the moment they would likely win a general election and they don't want to gamble that away.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **captain red dog** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:50 pm

3 consecutive defeats, Tories on the brink, first Govt to be held in contempt of Parliament. I'd say Corbyn is doing a pretty good job at this point. I also believe he would listen to democracy in his party if Labour supporters seemed to back a second referendum.

I guess having a genuinely left wing leader isn't palatable to everyone but I'd certainly trust Corbyn if he backed a second vote and remain, as I don't get the impression he would back remain just to stay in post. He is a long time left wing, old Labour socialist and he wouldn't back the EU if he felt it was leading a right wing capitalist agenda as it would be against his DNA. He might not be singing the praises of the EU, but I think he values the protection it gives to some socialist values.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Garth** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:54 pm

twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1070042375580516352

I can't see Boris becoming Tory leader any time soon.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Lex-Man** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:02 pm

It's been a good day for May's legacy as the most incompetent Prime Minster ever.

PostRe: Brexit Thread 2 by **Moggy** » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:47 pm

captain red dog wrote:3 consecutive defeats, Tories on the brink, first Govt to be held in contempt of Parliament. I'd say Corbyn is doing a pretty good job at this point.

I’d say it was more the Tories destroying themselves. Ever since the referendum they’ve shot themselves in the foot, fought amongst themselves and been horrifically incompetent.

It’s pretty telling on Corbyn that despite the Tories falling apart and despite May being one of the worst leaders we’ve ever had, Corbyn still trails behind May in most opinion polls.