Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

GRpredicts: Will Brexit be delayed again?

Yes
70
63%
No
41
37%
 
Total votes: 111
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Rocsteady
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Rocsteady » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:21 am

Lex-Man wrote:I know a pilot for Ryan Air. Apparently it's not much of a problem because you're working outside the customs area of that country so it's still legal. Although he was meant to move to Italy where his route is based and now he has to basically commute out there to start work everyday.

Yeah, of all the effects of Brexit I don't think this particular aspect will be of much consequence in the aviation industry.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Rocsteady » Wed Feb 05, 2020 9:22 am

Lex-Man wrote:We don't need a trade deal with the EU.

Michael Gove has sparked anger after claiming the UK doesn’t “need” a post-Brexit trade deal with the EU, insisting it is better to “stand up for Britain”.

The cabinet office minister put a no-deal crash-out – at the end of 2020 – back centre-stage, despite Boris Johnson insisting the risk was “absolutely zero” during the general election campaign.

Mr Gove also claimed the current level of trade with the US proved a formal agreement was not necessary, despite a deal with Washington being a supposed prize for leaving the EU.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/p ... 16336.html

Aw yea, stand up for Britain boiiiiyz

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Feb 05, 2020 10:52 am

Hexx wrote:
Meep wrote:Interesting to wonder how long they can keep this pantomime going.


Seemingly indefinitely - there's no push back from their supporters for lying, so why stop?

Even if they agree the most subservient trade deal in the world with EU and cave everywher - they'll still being jingoistic rallying cries at home that a lapped up.


It'll be interesting to see the general publics reaction when the effects start to become undeniable. My worry is they'll be able to brush it off as not that big a deal or just blame the EU. That said I think that people will probably be furious if things do go badly.

We keep talking about leavers and remainers but I think most people actually sit somewhere in the middle and when things turn they'll be the ones applying pressure to the government. Although maybe I'm wrong who knows.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 11:15 am

Lex-Man wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Meep wrote:Interesting to wonder how long they can keep this pantomime going.


Seemingly indefinitely - there's no push back from their supporters for lying, so why stop?

Even if they agree the most subservient trade deal in the world with EU and cave everywher - they'll still being jingoistic rallying cries at home that a lapped up.


It'll be interesting to see the general publics reaction when the effects start to become undeniable. My worry is they'll be able to brush it off as not that big a deal or just blame the EU. That said I think that people will probably be furious if things do go badly.

We keep talking about leavers and remainers but I think most people actually sit somewhere in the middle and when things turn they'll be the ones applying pressure to the government. Although maybe I'm wrong who knows.


Will the effects be undeniable though? We might think so, economists might say so, but Leavers will pretend it is something else or just a blip before we become a success.

If this time next year the economy takes a dive, the argument will be “Yes, but we always said that it would take time for the economy to boom! This is a short term blip”. They might also find another country that isn’t doing great and say “Aha! But Namibia is also in recession and they have never been in the EU!”.

A few years down the line they will be hoping people forget. Any questions though will just be brushed off with “Brexit was years ago! This is nothing to do with that, this is because of the incompetent government! Make Mark Francois the Prime Minister and see what a real Brexiteer does! Mark was always behind Brexit, Boris wrote two articles remember, he was not fully behind it!”.

Ten/twenty years down the line, hopefully they will all be dead and we can get the country back to where it should be.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Cheeky Devlin » Wed Feb 05, 2020 12:16 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Meep wrote:Interesting to wonder how long they can keep this pantomime going.


Seemingly indefinitely - there's no push back from their supporters for lying, so why stop?

Even if they agree the most subservient trade deal in the world with EU and cave everywher - they'll still being jingoistic rallying cries at home that a lapped up.


It'll be interesting to see the general publics reaction when the effects start to become undeniable. My worry is they'll be able to brush it off as not that big a deal or just blame the EU. That said I think that people will probably be furious if things do go badly.

We keep talking about leavers and remainers but I think most people actually sit somewhere in the middle and when things turn they'll be the ones applying pressure to the government. Although maybe I'm wrong who knows.


Will the effects be undeniable though? We might think so, economists might say so, but Leavers will pretend it is something else or just a blip before we become a success.

If this time next year the economy takes a dive, the argument will be “Yes, but we always said that it would take time for the economy to boom! This is a short term blip”. They might also find another country that isn’t doing great and say “Aha! But Namibia is also in recession and they have never been in the EU!”.

A few years down the line they will be hoping people forget. Any questions though will just be brushed off with “Brexit was years ago! This is nothing to do with that, this is because of the incompetent government! Make Mark Francois the Prime Minister and see what a real Brexiteer does! Mark was always behind Brexit, Boris wrote two articles remember, he was not fully behind it!”.

Ten/twenty years down the line, hopefully they will all be dead and we can get the country back to where it should be.


:shock: :dread:

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:38 pm

Cheeky Devlin wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Hexx wrote:
Meep wrote:Interesting to wonder how long they can keep this pantomime going.


Seemingly indefinitely - there's no push back from their supporters for lying, so why stop?

Even if they agree the most subservient trade deal in the world with EU and cave everywher - they'll still being jingoistic rallying cries at home that a lapped up.


It'll be interesting to see the general publics reaction when the effects start to become undeniable. My worry is they'll be able to brush it off as not that big a deal or just blame the EU. That said I think that people will probably be furious if things do go badly.

We keep talking about leavers and remainers but I think most people actually sit somewhere in the middle and when things turn they'll be the ones applying pressure to the government. Although maybe I'm wrong who knows.


Will the effects be undeniable though? We might think so, economists might say so, but Leavers will pretend it is something else or just a blip before we become a success.

If this time next year the economy takes a dive, the argument will be “Yes, but we always said that it would take time for the economy to boom! This is a short term blip”. They might also find another country that isn’t doing great and say “Aha! But Namibia is also in recession and they have never been in the EU!”.

A few years down the line they will be hoping people forget. Any questions though will just be brushed off with “Brexit was years ago! This is nothing to do with that, this is because of the incompetent government! Make Mark Francois the Prime Minister and see what a real Brexiteer does! Mark was always behind Brexit, Boris wrote two articles remember, he was not fully behind it!”.

Ten/twenty years down the line, hopefully they will all be dead and we can get the country back to where it should be.


:shock: :dread:


Would he be any worse than the current on though?

I don't think it'll be down to Brexiters it'll be down to the broader public to make their mind up. I could definitely see them becoming very anti-brexit if things go badly. That said it's not definite that they will turn of the government.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:50 pm

Lex-Man wrote:I don't think it'll be down to Brexiters it'll be down to the broader public to make their mind up. I could definitely see them becoming very anti-brexit if things go badly. That said it's not definite that they will turn of the government.


The country is split into 3 camps.

The Leavers – they will never admit they were wrong no matter what happens. It’ll always be somebody else’s fault or success will be just around the corner. They are basically Del Boy, they will sell you stolen goods and tell you that this time next year you will be a millionaire.

The Remainers – I think most Remainers would admit they were wrong on the figures if Britain suddenly became a booming economy. But Remainers will never admit they were wrong on the other issues (freedom of movement etc).

The inbetweeners (thatsaninterestingstory.gif) – The majority of these people don’t give a gooseberry fool either way or at least are so politically ignorant that they have no idea what the fuss was about. I heard a young girl at work yesterday basically saying “All that fuss about Brexit and then nothing has really happened has it? It was just the papers and politicians hyping things up!”. These are the people in 10 years’ time (if we get a deal that doesn’t tank the economy) that will be saying “it was just like the Millennium bug”.

The public are therefore unlikely to turn on Brexit, some will not follow closely enough to see what Brexit causes and some will never admit it was the fault of Brexit. The media isn’t going to tell them any different either, the Mail, Sun, Express, Telegraph etc are not about to suddenly tell everyone “lol we told you a load of lies!”.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Vermilion » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:57 pm

My 50p arrived today, so yay!

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:59 pm

Yay fascist money!

;)

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Cheeky Devlin » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:04 pm

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Vermilion » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:08 pm

Moggy wrote:Yay fascist money!

;)


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:toot:

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:16 pm

Vermilion wrote:
Moggy wrote:Yay fascist money!

;)


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:toot:


Here's your new 2p.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:39 pm

I don't think it actually matters what the paper say if people start losing their jobs, etc. They'll be pissed and that's when a push to bring us back in the EU might succeed.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:43 pm

Lex-Man wrote:I don't think it actually matters what the paper say if people start losing their jobs, etc. They'll be pissed and that's when a push to bring us back in the EU might succeed.


Unfortunately it does matter. How many people blamed the banks for the 2008 crash? There was a little bit at the time, but that was mostly just lefties. The papers just pointed at Labour and then at the EU and huge numbers of people lapped it up.

People will lose their jobs and the papers will tell them it is the fault of something other than the EU. And they will believe them.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:46 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:I don't think it actually matters what the paper say if people start losing their jobs, etc. They'll be pissed and that's when a push to bring us back in the EU might succeed.


Unfortunately it does matter. How many people blamed the banks for the 2008 crash? There was a little bit at the time, but that was mostly just lefties. The papers just pointed at Labour and then at the EU and huge numbers of people lapped it up.

People will lose their jobs and the papers will tell them it is the fault of something other than the EU. And they will believe them.


But I think the scale of Brexit might make more people get involved. The suggestion is that Boris' Brexit will be three times larger than 2008 which will mean it'll be harder to ignore.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:51 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:I don't think it actually matters what the paper say if people start losing their jobs, etc. They'll be pissed and that's when a push to bring us back in the EU might succeed.


Unfortunately it does matter. How many people blamed the banks for the 2008 crash? There was a little bit at the time, but that was mostly just lefties. The papers just pointed at Labour and then at the EU and huge numbers of people lapped it up.

People will lose their jobs and the papers will tell them it is the fault of something other than the EU. And they will believe them.


But I think the scale of Brexit might make more people get involved. The suggestion is that Boris' Brexit will be three times larger than 2008 which will mean it'll be harder to ignore.


"It was the EU's fault"

"If we rejoin we'll have to have the Euro"

"The EU is about to collapse"

"Greece is worse off than us so rejoining won't help"

"It wasn't Brexit's fault, it was Labour's reckless spending in 2005"

"Boris Johnson's tax policies are to blame, it wasn't the Brexit vote"

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:33 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:I don't think it actually matters what the paper say if people start losing their jobs, etc. They'll be pissed and that's when a push to bring us back in the EU might succeed.


Unfortunately it does matter. How many people blamed the banks for the 2008 crash? There was a little bit at the time, but that was mostly just lefties. The papers just pointed at Labour and then at the EU and huge numbers of people lapped it up.

People will lose their jobs and the papers will tell them it is the fault of something other than the EU. And they will believe them.


But I think the scale of Brexit might make more people get involved. The suggestion is that Boris' Brexit will be three times larger than 2008 which will mean it'll be harder to ignore.


"It was the EU's fault"

"If we rejoin we'll have to have the Euro"

"The EU is about to collapse"

"Greece is worse off than us so rejoining won't help"

"It wasn't Brexit's fault, it was Labour's reckless spending in 2005"

"Boris Johnson's tax policies are to blame, it wasn't the Brexit vote"


If food prices get to high and people are out of work none of the excuses will wash.

Amusement under late capitalism is the prolongation of work.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Feb 05, 2020 4:56 pm

Lex-Man wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:I don't think it actually matters what the paper say if people start losing their jobs, etc. They'll be pissed and that's when a push to bring us back in the EU might succeed.


Unfortunately it does matter. How many people blamed the banks for the 2008 crash? There was a little bit at the time, but that was mostly just lefties. The papers just pointed at Labour and then at the EU and huge numbers of people lapped it up.

People will lose their jobs and the papers will tell them it is the fault of something other than the EU. And they will believe them.


But I think the scale of Brexit might make more people get involved. The suggestion is that Boris' Brexit will be three times larger than 2008 which will mean it'll be harder to ignore.


"It was the EU's fault"

"If we rejoin we'll have to have the Euro"

"The EU is about to collapse"

"Greece is worse off than us so rejoining won't help"

"It wasn't Brexit's fault, it was Labour's reckless spending in 2005"

"Boris Johnson's tax policies are to blame, it wasn't the Brexit vote"


If food prices get to high and people are out of work none of the excuses will wash.


We’ll see, but I wouldn’t hold out hope that many people will change their minds. Anything that goes wrong will be blamed on something else and/or on the EU.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Jenuall » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:09 pm

What's easier: to re-asses the facts, accept that problems are caused by something other than what you originally believed (which also involves a healthy does of admitting that you have been fundamentally wrong about things for a long time) and begin to stand up and fight for change ... or to keep on believing the lies and blame the same scapegoats that people have told you were the problem for the last 30 years?

Hmm, I wonder.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:28 pm

Jenuall wrote:What's easier: to re-asses the facts, accept that problems are caused by something other than what you originally believed (which also involves a healthy does of admitting that you have been fundamentally wrong about things for a long time) and begin to stand up and fight for change ... or to keep on believing the lies and blame the same scapegoats that people have told you were the problem for the last 30 years?

Hmm, I wonder.


I don't think the true believers are going to change their minds but I think a lot of people who sit in the middle could be persuaded to back the other side. These are people who may have voted leave but didn't do it with any real strong view so switching wouldn't be a massive change of self.

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