Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain

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GRpredicts: Will Brexit be delayed again?

Yes
71
61%
No
45
39%
 
Total votes: 116
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:52 pm

Cuttooth wrote:How do these people get elected?


He's got a dog that speaks French. Can Labour offer anything like that?

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Photek » Wed Jun 17, 2020 10:51 pm



Satire is now dead.

What the actual strawberry float.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Mon Jun 22, 2020 8:52 pm



This from a Brexit supporting MP :fp: .

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by captain red dog » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:32 pm

Lex-Man wrote:

This from a Brexit supporting MP :fp: .

I do think though, Brexit does make it incredibly hard now for Scotland to rejoin the EU as an independent nation. They would need to be able to demonstrate they could control the border with England in terms of customs checks. That would be a massive issue as we have seen between Ireland, NI and Britain. I can't see the EU wanting to open that can of worms once Brexit has finally been done.

Having said that, I'd still support Scotland going independent.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Cuttooth » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:37 pm

Tom Tugendhat isn't really a Brexit supporting MP as such, pretty sure he campaigned to remain and was one of the first lot of Tory rebels to vote down the Brexit timetable. He's done strawberry float all since then though as he's clearly positioning himself to be a leadership candidate within the next ten years or so.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Hypes » Tue Jun 23, 2020 4:14 pm

captain red dog wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:

This from a Brexit supporting MP :fp: .

I do think though, Brexit does make it incredibly hard now for Scotland to rejoin the EU as an independent nation. They would need to be able to demonstrate they could control the border with England in terms of customs checks. That would be a massive issue as we have seen between Ireland, NI and Britain. I can't see the EU wanting to open that can of worms once Brexit has finally been done.

Having said that, I'd still support Scotland going independent.


Would be completely different. There'd be no historical agreement preventing a 'hard border'

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by captain red dog » Tue Jun 23, 2020 7:58 pm

Hypes wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:

This from a Brexit supporting MP :fp: .

I do think though, Brexit does make it incredibly hard now for Scotland to rejoin the EU as an independent nation. They would need to be able to demonstrate they could control the border with England in terms of customs checks. That would be a massive issue as we have seen between Ireland, NI and Britain. I can't see the EU wanting to open that can of worms once Brexit has finally been done.

Having said that, I'd still support Scotland going independent.


Would be completely different. There'd be no historical agreement preventing a 'hard border'

That's correct, but Scots generally don't want a hard border with England. The UK would likely insist, and the EU would want to see the border managed. So the Scottish government would have to make a very controversial decision to join the Euro and have a hard border. Or take absolute complete independence.

Perhaps if the UK get a reasonably decent deal with the EU, it would make it easier as Scotland can replicate that and continue to apply it. But getting a decent deal done seems highly unlikely.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Karl_ » Tue Jun 23, 2020 9:25 pm

I think Scotland would aim to join both the EU and the CTA, much like Ireland has. No-one can predict the future but there's no barrier to it in principle.

I also think it should base its decision on a holistic view of what's best for the people of Scotland. Even if it has to choose between the CTA and the EU, Scots would still be in a better position for having freed themselves from malevolent Tory governance forever.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Jenuall » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:17 am

As long as I don't get kicked out of Wales for being English scum I'd be all up for splitting the UK at this point. Scotland definitely has greater momentum at the moment and I think it's going to happen sooner rather than later but I can definitely see the UK in general being dead if things carry on like this.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 9:26 am

Jenuall wrote:As long as I don't get kicked out of Wales for being English scum I'd be all up for splitting the UK at this point. Scotland definitely has greater momentum at the moment and I think it's going to happen sooner rather than later but I can definitely see the UK in general being dead if things carry on like this.


Scotland I could see surviving and thriving and N Ireland would probably be better off under the Republic, although whether RoI would be better off is a different question.

I don’t know about Wales though, I don’t see them being any better off outside of the UK and I think they would really struggle.

Maybe a Celtic Union should be formed. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall all as one EU country. ;)

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Tomous
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Tomous » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:10 am

Wales doesn't have the underlying economy to support itself independently, Moggy is right-the country would struggle.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Karl_ » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:18 am

Wales receives quite a bit of European Social Fund money which is being cut off after Brexit is done with. We're going to be very hard hit here.

If that anger is successfully directed at the real cause (Tories, Westminster) like it is in Scotland then I can see independence picking up steam here. Plaid Cymru are where the SNP were 10-15 years ago, it all comes down to whether they capitalise on it now.

England could clearly do some damage to the Scottish and Welsh economies after independence, but I think even in the face of that there would still be benefits for the average Scottish or Welsh person, simply because the countries could be so much more left-wing without any Tory influence.

It will be better for Scotland and Wales to be potentially somewhat poorer left-leaning nations on their own than being attached to an abusive far-right fascist England forever.

Ironically, all the arguments about "taking the short-term pain of Brexit for the good of the country" which were stupid precisely because the EU isn't a failing fascist hellhole, actually do apply to breaking up the UK because England actually is a failing fascist hellhole.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Karl_ » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:24 am

Moggy wrote:Maybe a Celtic Union should be formed. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall all as one EU country. ;)

I fully support this idea of a kind of bizzaro-world anti-UK set up specifically to bully England. :lol:

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Jenuall » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:33 am

:lol:

The Welsh economy is an interesting one to analyse for a variety of reasons and there would no doubt be plenty of work in order for an independent Wales to thrive, but it's not out of the question. The GDP and GDP per capita of Wales isn't on par with the big guns globally but it's far from destitute.

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Victor Mildew » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:35 am

Given the level of anti-english rhetoric I've experienced living here, I'm amazed there hasn't been an effort to gain independence already.

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Jenuall » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:39 am

There was quite a lot of momentum behind the Welsh nationalist movement in the last century but it seemed to die off to a certain extent as we moved into this century. Sustaining a movement for a long period is a difficult thing and I guess getting things like the Welsh Assembly probably made people with more moderate views think "that's enough"

England also became less directly obvious and overt in its approach to shitting on Wales as well which didn't help. It's hard to keep people outraged if you're not flooding Welsh villages to create reservoirs for the English

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Drumstick » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:51 am

Victor Mildew wrote:Given the level of anti-english rhetoric I've experienced living here, I'm amazed there hasn't been an effort to gain independence already.

I'm sure that similar sentiments exist in Scotland but it wouldn't put me off upping sticks and moving there (or Wales for that matter).

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Jenuall
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Jenuall » Wed Jun 24, 2020 10:55 am

For what it's worth I've spent about 10 years of my life as an Englishman living in Wales and have barely heard any anti-English rhetoric in that time. There's been the usual sporting banter and I've heard plenty of genuine criticism of the way that the UK government operates with respect to Wales but nothing that isn't warranted!

I've no doubt there are anti-English dicks out there but from my experience they are not the norm

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Karl_ » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:10 am

I've heard a lot of anti England rhetoric, which has sometimes been phrased a bit poorly ("the English are strawberry floating us again" etc.), but I've never felt disliked by anyone on a personal level for being born in England here.

I am not at all into sport though so I think I dodge a main vector for it. If I were out at a pub on a match night wearing an England rugby shirt I imagine there's a certain kind of person that would really rile up. :lol:

I know my experience isn't universal though, I'm sorry that you've run into some dicks Ad!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Jun 24, 2020 11:14 am

Karl_ wrote:
Moggy wrote:Maybe a Celtic Union should be formed. Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Cornwall all as one EU country. ;)

I fully support this idea of a kind of bizzaro-world anti-UK set up specifically to bully England. :lol:


The United States of WalIreScoWall does have a ring to it.

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