Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain

Fed up talking videogames? Why?

GRpredicts: Will Brexit be delayed again?

Yes
71
60%
No
48
40%
 
Total votes: 119
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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Photek » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:52 am

Lex-Man wrote:
Photek wrote:


It worked the EU are cowed and ready to agree to all our demands. :fp: :fp: :fp:


I don't like how Andrew Marr tries several times to interrupt Coveney when he's merely stating facts. :x

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by captain red dog » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:27 pm

On no level do I understand the government's position on this. If they are saying the EU are using an extreme interpretation of the WA, then the fault lies with the government for signing up to something that could be interpreted that way. They didn't check the details!

Also, what is the actual claim here for what the govt are saying the EU want to do? The EU do not have the ability to be able to blockade Northern Ireland. If they did, they would be breaking international law themselves and it would be an act of war! They don't have a navy, France and Germany aren't going to be providing the naval infrastructure to do that (Britain still has the best Navy in Europe), and if they did, we would just set up an air bridge. Its an absolutely ludicrous claim, completely laughable, and I can't find anywhere, either a document or person in the EU that has even hinted they would attempt to blockade NI.

The level of lies from Vote Leave who are now in government is absolutely incredible. The lies are getting bigger and bigger, more and more ludicrous.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Tue Sep 15, 2020 12:34 pm

captain red dog wrote:On no level do I understand the government's position on this. If they are saying the EU are using an extreme interpretation of the WA, then the fault lies with the government for signing up to something that could be interpreted that way. They didn't check the details!

Also, what is the actual claim here for what the govt are saying the EU want to do? The EU do not have the ability to be able to blockade Northern Ireland. If they did, they would be breaking international law themselves and it would be an act of war! They don't have a navy, France and Germany aren't going to be providing the naval infrastructure to do that (Britain still has the best Navy in Europe), and if they did, we would just set up an air bridge. Its an absolutely ludicrous claim, completely laughable, and I can't find anywhere, either a document or person in the EU that has even hinted they would attempt to blockade NI.

The level of lies from Vote Leave who are now in government is absolutely incredible. The lies are getting bigger and bigger, more and more ludicrous.


It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.

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Trelliz
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Trelliz » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 am

Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Rex Kramer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:43 am

Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by captain red dog » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:50 am

Rex Kramer wrote:
Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.

I remember when conspiracy theories were actually cool and quite intricate, and generally harmless, like Roswell, faked moon landings, JFK etc. Heck even the people that pushed the theories did it in a jokey way.

Now, conspiracy theories are "oh my god Obama said Biden likes ice cream, that's peado code for young boys" :fp:

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Rex Kramer
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Rex Kramer » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:57 am

captain red dog wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.

I remember when conspiracy theories were actually cool and quite intricate, and generally harmless, like Roswell, faked moon landings, JFK etc. Heck even the people that pushed the theories did it in a jokey way.

Now, conspiracy theories are "oh my god Obama said Biden likes ice cream, that's peado code for young boys" :fp:

Everyone should read Voodoo Histories by David Aaronovitch, it really digs into why these kinds of things gain traction so easily.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:25 am

Rex Kramer wrote:
Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.


It should link to that poster from the X-files. The truth is out there.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:50 am

On a serious note a friend of mine is heavily into conspiracy theories. I've actually been trying not to talk to him because of his views. From knowing him for twenty years, I feel like I have a pretty good idea about how he got into the conspiracy stuff. Basically it comes down to him feeling that the world is incredibly unfair and wanting to basically really quickly deal with all the inequality caused by the country to the point he doesn't really want to interact with society at large. Also he seems to not require the same level of proof as most people to believe thing, so he's into heavy levels of Woo based stuff. I think his views were shaped by his brother to some degree as well. Finally he actually picks and chooses what part of any conspiracy he actually believes so he will just dismiss the parts that he thinks are crazy. For example he listens to David Icke but doesn't accept people that the Royal family are shape shifting lizard people but will agree with the international paedophile conspiracy stuff.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by captain red dog » Wed Sep 16, 2020 9:55 am

It's almost like a religion. I have a friend who believed planes run on fresh air, because he saw a YouTube video that said the jet fuel would be too heavy and would be like trying to take off with 40 elephants on the wings!

It's like a religion because no amount of evidence or trying to show them it's all bollocks will work.

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Victor Mildew » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:02 am

captain red dog wrote:It's almost like a religion. I have a friend who believed planes run on fresh air, because he saw a YouTube video that said the jet fuel would be too heavy and would be like trying to take off with 40 elephants on the wings!

It's like a religion because no amount of evidence or trying to show them it's all bollocks will work.


:| gooseberry fool like that just makes me sad. What the strawberry float is wrong with people?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:03 am

Lex-Man wrote:Finally he actually picks and chooses what part of any conspiracy he actually believes so he will just dismiss the parts that he thinks are crazy. For example he listens to David Icke but doesn't accept people that the Royal family are shape shifting lizard people but will agree with the international paedophile conspiracy stuff.


People are weird.

Reputable people get 99% of things correct but conspiracy theorists will concentrate on the 1% that was wrong.

People like Icke will get 99% of things wrong, but conspiracy theorists will concentrate on the 1% that was correct.

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Tomous
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Tomous » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:08 am

I mentioned The Social Dilemma in The Facebook Thread, but they go into why social media is a huge reason on people are getting more caught up on believing false information. It really is dangerous for society's future the way in which false information is being spread.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Knoyleo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:11 am

captain red dog wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.

I remember when conspiracy theories were actually cool and quite intricate, and generally harmless, like Roswell, faked moon landings, JFK etc. Heck even the people that pushed the theories did it in a jokey way.

Now, conspiracy theories are "oh my god Obama said Biden likes ice cream, that's peado code for young boys" :fp:

Those conspiracies were still just the top level entry points to all the same gooseberry fool Qanonces believe now. They were all conspiracies about fronts put up by some shadowy new world order group, or evidence of "deep state" actors controlling things from behind the scenes. Dig a little deeper, and even then you'd have found the same anti semitic, child trafficking, blood libel nonsense.
The only difference now, is its easier than ever for people to get multiple layers into these things, and they then have a global platform in their pocket to spread it.

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captain red dog
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by captain red dog » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:12 am

Victor Mildew wrote:
captain red dog wrote:It's almost like a religion. I have a friend who believed planes run on fresh air, because he saw a YouTube video that said the jet fuel would be too heavy and would be like trying to take off with 40 elephants on the wings!

It's like a religion because no amount of evidence or trying to show them it's all bollocks will work.


:| gooseberry fool like that just makes me sad. What the strawberry float is wrong with people?

The crazy thing is, he works for Airbus! Thankfully, not in an engineering role!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:12 am

Tomous wrote:I mentioned The Social Dilemma in The Facebook Thread, but they go into why social media is a huge reason on people are getting more caught up on believing false information. It really is dangerous for society's future the way in which false information is being spread.


I've not watched that yet, but I think Facebook is more dangerous for the world than the gutter press ever was.

If governments don't stop the likes of Zuckerberg, then we are all strawberry floated.

And they won't stop him, because they are benefitting from him.

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Tomous
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Tomous » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:14 am

Moggy wrote:
Tomous wrote:I mentioned The Social Dilemma in The Facebook Thread, but they go into why social media is a huge reason on people are getting more caught up on believing false information. It really is dangerous for society's future the way in which false information is being spread.


I've not watched that yet, but I think Facebook is more dangerous for the world than the gutter press ever was.

If governments don't stop the likes of Zuckerberg, then we are all strawberry floated.

And they won't stop him, because they are benefitting from him.



I 100% agree and you're going to believe that even more after you watch it.

Social media isn't regulated anywhere near enough. It desperately needs it or we heading for disaster.

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Lex-Man
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Lex-Man » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:21 am

Knoyleo wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.

I remember when conspiracy theories were actually cool and quite intricate, and generally harmless, like Roswell, faked moon landings, JFK etc. Heck even the people that pushed the theories did it in a jokey way.

Now, conspiracy theories are "oh my god Obama said Biden likes ice cream, that's peado code for young boys" :fp:

Those conspiracies were still just the top level entry points to all the same gooseberry fool Qanonces believe now. They were all conspiracies about fronts put up by some shadowy new world order group, or evidence of "deep state" actors controlling things from behind the scenes. Dig a little deeper, and even then you'd have found the same anti semitic, child trafficking, blood libel nonsense.
The only difference now, is its easier than ever for people to get multiple layers into these things, and they then have a global platform in their pocket to spread it.


I heard somebody describe q-anon as an omnibus conspiracy as it takes in basically all the other conspiracy to some degree.

Amusement under late capitalism is the prolongation of work.
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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Moggy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:24 am

Tomous wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Tomous wrote:I mentioned The Social Dilemma in The Facebook Thread, but they go into why social media is a huge reason on people are getting more caught up on believing false information. It really is dangerous for society's future the way in which false information is being spread.


I've not watched that yet, but I think Facebook is more dangerous for the world than the gutter press ever was.

If governments don't stop the likes of Zuckerberg, then we are all strawberry floated.

And they won't stop him, because they are benefitting from him.



I 100% agree and you're going to believe that even more after you watch it.

Social media isn't regulated anywhere near enough. It desperately needs it or we heading for disaster.


Trouble is it's the same problem as things like the FPTP voting system. Whoever is in power benefitted from it and is therefore unlikely to want to change it.

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Knoyleo
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3 - The Dream is Dead, RIP Remain
by Knoyleo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:28 am

Lex-Man wrote:
Knoyleo wrote:
captain red dog wrote:
Rex Kramer wrote:
Trelliz wrote:
Lex-Man wrote:It's because people will believe any old gooseberry fool these days look at q-anon for example.


It's more dangerous and subtle than that, this article goes into a bit more about how obviously stupid consipracies draw people in

I'm really disappointed that this link doesn't lead to a page that just says 'You dumb bastard, as if we'd tell you'.

I remember when conspiracy theories were actually cool and quite intricate, and generally harmless, like Roswell, faked moon landings, JFK etc. Heck even the people that pushed the theories did it in a jokey way.

Now, conspiracy theories are "oh my god Obama said Biden likes ice cream, that's peado code for young boys" :fp:

Those conspiracies were still just the top level entry points to all the same gooseberry fool Qanonces believe now. They were all conspiracies about fronts put up by some shadowy new world order group, or evidence of "deep state" actors controlling things from behind the scenes. Dig a little deeper, and even then you'd have found the same anti semitic, child trafficking, blood libel nonsense.
The only difference now, is its easier than ever for people to get multiple layers into these things, and they then have a global platform in their pocket to spread it.


I heard somebody describe q-anon as an omnibus conspiracy as it takes in basically all the other conspiracy to some degree.

Yep.

There's a good video analysis of the Q anon "phenomenon" from the folding ideas youtube channel.



He prefaces it with a lot of flat earth stuff to segway into Q, as the decline in the popularity of flat earth content isn't as great news as it first appears, when you realise it just prepped all these people to dive head first into an even worse conspiracy theory. The transition is around 37 minutes in, but it's worth watching the whole thing.


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