Brexit Thread 3 - Project Reality

[Victor Mildew]

Cora migrates down under and comes face to face with a huge hairy spider

[Rocsteady]

strawberry floating Tory banana splits would let businesses work us serfs to death if they could.

This, essentially. It’s strawberry floating outrageous what they’re doing, I’m almost at the point of caving in to the wife’s wish to migrate back down under.

It's a more laidback lifestyle in my experience but the Aus government is even worse than ours in many ways.

[Moggy]

strawberry floating Tory banana splits would let businesses work us serfs to death if they could.

This, essentially. It’s strawberry floating outrageous what they’re doing, I’m almost at the point of caving in to the wife’s wish to migrate back down under.

It's a more laidback lifestyle in my experience but the Aus government is even worse than ours in many ways.

As bad as he is, I'm not sure I'd swap Nigel Farage for Pauline Hanson.

[Corazon de Leon]

Mercifully Pauline Hanson is considered a fruit loop even in Australia.

strawberry floating Tory banana splits would let businesses work us serfs to death if they could.

This, essentially. It’s strawberry floating outrageous what they’re doing, I’m almost at the point of caving in to the wife’s wish to migrate back down under.

It's a more laidback lifestyle in my experience but the Aus government is even worse than ours in many ways.

I've been keeping very much aware of Aussie politics for a while now, even got myself a subscription to the Sydney Morning Herald(admittedly that's for their archives rather than to actually read the news). They're awful in many respects, but also less awful than the Tories in many others.

I think in terms of British politics I've been operating with the idea that things are bad, the government is bad, but all of this just pushes the divide between north and south to the point where we can hopefully break away and form our own marginally less bad government.

[aayl1]

This is obviously terrible but every job I've ever had has had in the contract "I opt out of the EU working time directive", which I was forced to sign or not get the job. Did that directive actually impact our lives when we were in the EU? Or are other protections being eroded too?

^anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

[That]

anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

You can cancel your opt out with three months notice, and your employer isn't allowed to treat you differently for doing so.

Of course like all workers rights legislation it can be a bit difficult to take advantage of without a union backing you up, as most of us as individuals aren't geared up to pick legal fights with our bosses.

[Jenuall]

This is obviously terrible but every job I've ever had has had in the contract "I opt out of the EU working time directive", which I was forced to sign or not get the job. Did that directive actually impact our lives when we were in the EU? Or are other protections being eroded too?

^anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

This doesn't sound legal to me, I don't believe they were allowed to put something directly into your contract that says you opt out. Employees can sign an agreement to opt out of the 48 limit, but it is something that is separate from the employment contract and (in theory) is driven by the employee not the employer.

But yeah ultimately if the offer is "agree to work more than 48 hours or you won't get the job" I don't think people would have much choice.

I don't know if there are stats on how widely used the opt out was, but the fact is that whilst we were in the EU the default position was that there was a limit on working hours and if that goes it's likely that a hell of a lot more people will start taking the piss.

[Moggy]

This is obviously terrible but every job I've ever had has had in the contract "I opt out of the EU working time directive", which I was forced to sign or not get the job. Did that directive actually impact our lives when we were in the EU? Or are other protections being eroded too?

^anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

https://www.gov.uk/maximum-weekly-worki ... opting-out

They can't force you to do it. And you can cancel the opt out if you did sign something.

[aayl1]

anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

You can cancel your opt out with three months notice, and your employer isn't allowed to treat you differently for doing so.

Of course like all workers rights legislation it can be a bit difficult to take advantage of without a union backing you up, as most of us as individuals aren't geared up to pick legal fights with our bosses.

Oh I didn't know that! So I probably should have signed the contract, then put in that cancellation of the opt out notice after the probation period was up, aye?

Still unsure if it would have made much difference without said union as you mentioned as if I wasn't getting my work done regardless of my working hours I'd have been in trouble.

[aayl1]

This is obviously terrible but every job I've ever had has had in the contract "I opt out of the EU working time directive", which I was forced to sign or not get the job. Did that directive actually impact our lives when we were in the EU? Or are other protections being eroded too?

^anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

This doesn't sound legal to me, I don't believe they were allowed to put something directly into your contract that says you opt out. Employees can sign an agreement to opt out of the 48 limit, but it is something that is separate from the employment contract and (in theory) is driven by the employee not the employer.

But yeah ultimately if the offer is "agree to work more than 48 hours or you won't get the job" I don't think people would have much choice.

I don't know if there are stats on how widely used the opt out was, but the fact is that whilst we were in the EU the default position was that there was a limit on working hours and if that goes it's likely that a hell of a lot more people will start taking the piss.

It was 100% directly in the contract, and I's likely one of those things where like yeah, you can opt out, but they'd just find a completely unrelated reason to not hire you, like a pregnant woman etc.

[Jenuall]

This is obviously terrible but every job I've ever had has had in the contract "I opt out of the EU working time directive", which I was forced to sign or not get the job. Did that directive actually impact our lives when we were in the EU? Or are other protections being eroded too?

^anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

This doesn't sound legal to me, I don't believe they were allowed to put something directly into your contract that says you opt out. Employees can sign an agreement to opt out of the 48 limit, but it is something that is separate from the employment contract and (in theory) is driven by the employee not the employer.

But yeah ultimately if the offer is "agree to work more than 48 hours or you won't get the job" I don't think people would have much choice.

I don't know if there are stats on how widely used the opt out was, but the fact is that whilst we were in the EU the default position was that there was a limit on working hours and if that goes it's likely that a hell of a lot more people will start taking the piss.

It was 100% directly in the contract, and I's likely one of those things where like yeah, you can opt out, but they'd just find a completely unrelated reason to not hire you, like a pregnant woman etc.

Interesting, but then at the end of the day employers try to put all kinds of gooseberry fool in a contract even if it's not legal or allowed.

You aren't held to what it states in your contract if it breaks employment law, no matter how much employers and HR try to scare people into thinking it's 100% binding.

[aayl1]

Well, would have been nice to know that when we were protected by it.

Ho hum.

[Tomous]

This is obviously terrible but every job I've ever had has had in the contract "I opt out of the EU working time directive", which I was forced to sign or not get the job. Did that directive actually impact our lives when we were in the EU? Or are other protections being eroded too?

^anyone got an answer to this by the way? I am genuinely interested and don't feel like the EU WTD offered me any protection in the past as employers could demand I opt out.

This doesn't sound legal to me, I don't believe they were allowed to put something directly into your contract that says you opt out. Employees can sign an agreement to opt out of the 48 limit, but it is something that is separate from the employment contract and (in theory) is driven by the employee not the employer.

But yeah ultimately if the offer is "agree to work more than 48 hours or you won't get the job" I don't think people would have much choice.

I don't know if there are stats on how widely used the opt out was, but the fact is that whilst we were in the EU the default position was that there was a limit on working hours and if that goes it's likely that a hell of a lot more people will start taking the piss.

It was 100% directly in the contract, and I's likely one of those things where like yeah, you can opt out, but they'd just find a completely unrelated reason to not hire you, like a pregnant woman etc.

Interesting, but then at the end of the day employers try to put all kinds of gooseberry fool in a contract even if it's not legal or allowed.

You aren't held to what it states in your contract if it breaks employment law, no matter how much employers and HR try to scare people into thinking it's 100% binding.

It's not breaking employment law, although it is kinda bullshit as they are basically forcing you to agree to opt out when you sign your contract.

Your employer can't make you work more than 48 hours a week on average. It doesn't matter what your contract says or if you don't have a written contract.

If you want to work more than 48 hours a week, you can sign an agreement to opt out of the maximum weekly working time limit. It's your decision - your employer can't make you opt out.

If you opt out of the working time regulations, you might have to work more than 48 hours a week on average. Find out what you can do if you want to cancel your opt out agreement.

Effectively you are signing an agreement in your contract to opt out of the protection.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/work/ ... 0agreement.

[Moggy]

[Red]

My standard contract (not an opt out clause that I've signed) says I work a 40 hour week with mandatory 10 hours overtime every week so not sure what the point of the directive is, I can't opt out of the 50 hours and keep my job.

[Moggy]

My standard contract (not an opt out clause that I've signed) says I work a 40 hour week with mandatory 10 hours overtime every week so not sure what the point of the directive is, I can't opt out of the 50 hours and keep my job.

Legally you can.

[Red]

Maybe but there's no on-the-ground point, if you're employed on a series of very short term fixed term contracts like a lot of my industry is you'd not get away with challenging it and remaining employed.

[Moggy]

That's a failure of enforcement/unionisation rather than a failing of the directive.

It used to be "part of the job" that a manager would pinch the bum of his female secretaries. Plenty would have carried on after it was explicitly legislated against, women would (indeed still do!) fear for their jobs if they spoke up. That doesn't make sexual harassment laws pointless, it just means there are really really shitty employers, poor or non-existent unions and a lot of scared employees.

[Red]

I actually don't think my employers are shitty. I don't know what to think really, the time is paid and I knew what I was signing up for so I guess I don't really care.

Just seems like something that's a nice idea but kind of pointless in reality. I guess if there are loads of legal battles on behalf of exploited people in the UK then fair enough.

[Moggy]

It's not pointless just because you enjoy your job and are happy to opt out of the directive. It's there to protect people who are exploited by shitty employers.