Brexit Thread 3 - Project Reality

[Corazon de Leon]

Looking very seriously at teaching jobs abroad as well. I’ll see what happens.

[Lagamorph]

If push came to shove I could probably relocate to Scotland without much trouble whilst keeping the exact same job....

[Oblomov Boblomov]

strawberry float Brexit and anyone who supports it.

I'm in Italy with work and the subject has come up. Essentially they all think we're strawberry floating stupid for voting Brexit and I agreed with them. Everyone hopes it is cancelled.

Laughing stock of the continent, second in the world only to the USA for electing Trump.

[Moggy]

The fact is people were fully aware that voting leave would most likely make them poorer, that's what the remain campaign focused on. However they still voted to leave.

You and I are both 20k worse off because of the banking crisis, because of the wealthy elites, I may be another 20k worse off cos of Brexit, at least I am responsible for that this time.

If in 10 or 20 years time Brexit has proved to be a catastrophic failure, as you all predict then I'm fully prepared to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong. However once we finally get out I'm fully confident we will make Brexit a success. Our children and their children will thank us for this. 

strawberry floating sick of reading shite like that. strawberry float anybody that still believes in this bullshit.

[That]

As if the sweaty old wankers that say things like that will still be around in 20 years to hold accountable.

[Moggy]

A reply to that above:

That’s at best misleading and at worst completely untrue.

People vote based on the side they believe. People believed the Leave lies of sunny uplands and amazing trade deals.

Any politician, celebrity or businesspeople that warned it’d harm us were written off as “Project Fear”.

It’s simply false to claim people voted Leave because they believed Remain.

And Brexit twat came back with:

Are you really suggesting that people who voted leave didn't know that by voting leave the pound would instantly drop? Of course they bloody knew. Pretty obvious isn't it? So no, it's not false, it's common sense. People were prepared to take a short term loss for long term gain.

The rewriting of history is incredible.

[Tomous]

2016 - leave voters: PROJECT FEAR

2019 - leave voters: we didn’t believe the leave campaign, we believed the remain campaign but voted leave anyway

[Moggy]

2016 - leave voters: PROJECT FEAR

2019 - leave voters: we didn’t believe the leave campaign, we believed the remain campaign but voted leave anyway

Plus “it’ll take 10-20 years to recover” followed up with “short term pain”.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

It is depressing to say this but I honestly believe that racism is where it begins and ends for a significant majority of Leave voters.

[Christopher]

It is depressing to say this but I honestly believe that racism is where it begins and ends for a significant majority of Leave voters.

It absolutely is, they won’t ever say it but we know it.

[Moggy]

I don’t believe racism was behind the majority of Leave votes, but it was a significant proportion.

Not all Leave voters are racist but all racists were Leave voters.

[Tomous]

It’s a combination of racism, stupidity, sticking it to those in power, and genuine political reasons.

I’m not sure what the mix is but I don’t think the last reason makes up the majority of the vote by any means.

[That]

I think a lot of people would say they had genuine political reasons, but those reasons tend to fall apart pretty easily if you fact-check them. That leaves you wondering, "Why are they so eager to believe the not-factual side?" You feel like there's something underneath it.

Sometimes it's racism, but it's not always racism. Sometimes it's a (quite understandable!) hatred of "the politicians" and simply not believing that it's the worst and most hateful politicians that wanted Brexit (because the media portrays Farage et al. as anti-establishment mavericks). Other times it's just not wanting to admit they had the wool pulled over their eyes.

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

But I can't give any benefit of the doubt to people who still support it in 2019, even as the fan gooseberry fool is, like, spraying all in their mouth and eyes. If you are so ignorant / stubborn that you cheerlead for Nazis for three years, watch them make serious headway into dismantling the country, and still don't pause for thought then you are basically as bad as them for all intents and purposes.

[Oblomov Boblomov]

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

[Moggy]

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

I know a few, but it’s hard to tell just how many there are.

Polls would suggest there has been a change, if not so dramatic as we would hope.

It’d help if we knew what Leave actually means. We are still in a situation where it might be a deal or might be no deal. It’s hard to judge what more sensible (there might be a couple left ) Leavers would do if actually confronted with no deal as the only Leave option.

[That]

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

Anecdotally yeah I know a few! But I think that's selection bias, I am much more likely to know "borderline" Leave voters than the hardcore.

Statistically, based on how polls have swung, I think it's probably at most about a quarter of Leave voters that have had second thoughts since then. A solid majority of them have dug their heels in: to me that says it was never really about the "opportunities" or "£350 million" or any real(-seeming) arguments, all that's disappeared but they must still be getting what they want on some level.

[Return_of_the_STAR]

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

Anecdotally yeah I know a few! But I think that's selection bias, I am much more likely to know "borderline" Leave voters than the hardcore.

Statistically, based on how polls have swung, I think it's probably at most about a quarter of Leave voters that have had second thoughts since then. A solid majority of them have dug their heels in: to me that says it was never really about the "opportunities" or "£350 million" or any real(-seeming) arguments, all that's disappeared but they must still be getting what they want on some level.

I'm more worried about the minds of people who voted remain but now want to leave. I can't understand the working of those people.

[Photek]

We’re f**ked, but not as f**ked as you guys!

[Errkal]

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

Anecdotally yeah I know a few! But I think that's selection bias, I am much more likely to know "borderline" Leave voters than the hardcore.

Statistically, based on how polls have swung, I think it's probably at most about a quarter of Leave voters that have had second thoughts since then. A solid majority of them have dug their heels in: to me that says it was never really about the "opportunities" or "£350 million" or any real(-seeming) arguments, all that's disappeared but they must still be getting what they want on some level.

I'm more worried about the minds of people who voted remain but now want to leave. I can't understand the working of those people.

Those people don't like to lose, they would be the people in the play ground that hang back in a game to pick the side to see which team has most people then follows the biggest. They probably had no real opinion to begin with and voted remain as they saw it as the bigger group.

[Moggy]

I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

Anecdotally yeah I know a few! But I think that's selection bias, I am much more likely to know "borderline" Leave voters than the hardcore.

Statistically, based on how polls have swung, I think it's probably at most about a quarter of Leave voters that have had second thoughts since then. A solid majority of them have dug their heels in: to me that says it was never really about the "opportunities" or "£350 million" or any real(-seeming) arguments, all that's disappeared but they must still be getting what they want on some level.

I'm more worried about the minds of people who voted remain but now want to leave. I can't understand the working of those people.

A lot of the people that say “I voted Remain but....” are lying Leavers.

There probably are people that have changed from Remain to Leave, but their number is vanishingly small compared to those that switched the other way.