Brexit Thread 3 - Project Reality

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massimo
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by massimo » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:22 am

Moggy wrote:
Return_of_the_STAR wrote:
Karl_ wrote:
Oblomov Boblomov wrote:
Karl_ wrote:I am more sympathetic to people who were ignorant / stubborn in 2016 but who have since seen all the gross little bits of gooseberry fool flying out of the fan. If you get it wrong and hold your hands up after and admit you believed a lie or whatever, then fine, I respect the honesty. Politics is complicated, Brexit was deliberately muddied, I think a lot of perfectly nice people will have got it wrong.

Are there many of these people? Do we have any research into it? It feels as though the number is negligible, with the vast majority planted firmly, fingers in ears.

Anecdotally yeah I know a few! But I think that's selection bias, I am much more likely to know "borderline" Leave voters than the hardcore.

Statistically, based on how polls have swung, I think it's probably at most about a quarter of Leave voters that have had second thoughts since then. A solid majority of them have dug their heels in: to me that says it was never really about the "opportunities" or "£350 million" or any real(-seeming) arguments, all that's disappeared but they must still be getting what they want on some level.


I'm more worried about the minds of people who voted remain but now want to leave. I can't understand the working of those people.


A lot of the people that say “I voted Remain but....” are lying Leavers.

There probably are people that have changed from Remain to Leave, but their number is vanishingly small compared to those that switched the other way.


This, it’s utter nonsense.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Samuel_1 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:36 am

Moggy wrote:I don’t believe racism was behind the majority of Leave votes, but it was a significant proportion.

Not all Leave voters are racist but all racists were Leave voters.

The Leave campaign was one of the most successful transferences of blame that I have ever witnessed. As I've said many times, the Leave campaign managed to blame the hardships imposed by austerity on the EU. Of course we all know that the Tory led austerity was unnecessary. Perhaps this is why the Remain campaign struggled; in order for it to be truly effective the Tories had to admit that it was their policies that has led to people's suffering, not the EU.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:44 am

Samuel_1 wrote:
Moggy wrote:I don’t believe racism was behind the majority of Leave votes, but it was a significant proportion.

Not all Leave voters are racist but all racists were Leave voters.

The Leave campaign was one of the most successful transferences of blame that I have ever witnessed. As I've said many times, the Leave campaign managed to blame the hardships imposed by austerity on the EU. Of course we all know that the Tory led austerity was unnecessary. Perhaps this is why the Remain campaign struggled; in order for it to be truly effective the Tories had to admit that it was their policies that has led to people's suffering, not the EU.


Partially that and partially that it’s much easier to persuade people when you are describing a complete fantasy.

“Shall we go on holiday?”

“Yes, let’s book an all inclusive 5* resort in the Maldives for 2 months. We’ll speak to the airline who are bound to upgrade us to first class and we will win the lottery while we are away!”

“We can’t go on holiday this year as we are supposed to be saving up for a deposit for a house. Maybe we can do a weekend away next year?”

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Lagamorph » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:47 am

So latest rumours are that Boris may try to call a General Election over the Exit period as Parliament doesn't sit during a General Election, so we leave with No Deal and Parliament can do nothing to stop it as there is no parliament.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by KK » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:56 am

Boris on Friday promised Brenda from Bristol that there would categorically not be another election before 31st October 2019, and Boris never lies.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:05 am

Lagamorph wrote:So latest rumours are that Boris may try to call a General Election over the Exit period as Parliament doesn't sit during a General Election, so we leave with No Deal and Parliament can do nothing to stop it as there is no parliament.


All dat parliamentary sovereignty :datass:

Edit:

To be more serious, Johnson would need 2/3rds of Parliament to agree to that. Labour would be torn a new asshole if they agreed to an election just so Johnson could get a No Deal Brexit.

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Meep
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Meep » Sun Jul 28, 2019 11:15 am

Lagamorph wrote:So latest rumours are that Boris may try to call a General Election over the Exit period as Parliament doesn't sit during a General Election, so we leave with No Deal and Parliament can do nothing to stop it as there is no parliament.

That would be a good idea if you wanted to lose an election. I can see him winning if he calls an election before leaving but I cannot see it happening while there are daily headlines reporting the latest job losses and crises to emergence as a result of government policy. That being the case, I expect an election to be called within a couple of weeks now. Johnson does not actually believe Brexit is a good idea (remember, he only joined the campaign for career reasons) so he won't wait for the economy consequences to present themselves after leaving to call an election. Assuming Brexit does happen on Halloween, his approval rating now probably represent the best he can hope for and he's better off striking while Labour are still in disarray. The establishment media, including the BBC, are busy fawning over him at the moment so they must be thinking the same thing.

Here's hoping the British public see through the charade. The way the news keeps going on about "Boris" being so 'charismatic you'd think he was a real man of the people but by all indications he's less popular than May; which shows you that the public aren't as credulous as many would hope.


Oh, and Brexit is happening on the 31-10-2019. Don't believe otherwise. It's been repeated ad nauseam through the leadership campaign so if it doesn't happen Johnson will be forced to resign and the Tories will be eviscerated by the Brexit Party, making a Corbyn government all but certain. There's no way they are letting that happen, even if it means driving the UK off a cliff.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:40 pm

twitter.com/Femi_Sorry/status/1154965991664881665


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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 4:43 pm

Meep wrote:Oh, and Brexit is happening on the 31-10-2019. Don't believe otherwise. It's been repeated ad nauseam through the leadership campaign so if it doesn't happen Johnson will be forced to resign and the Tories will be eviscerated by the Brexit Party, making a Corbyn government all but certain. There's no way they are letting that happen, even if it means driving the UK off a cliff.


Not necessarily. If Johnson calls and wins an election then the pressure of delivering no deal will be over. He’s always been happy to change position.

If Johnson calls and loses an election then it’d be up to Corbyn/a coalition to persuade Parliament whether to extend, revoke or call another referendum.

If Johnson doesn’t call an election, then Parliament can stop it.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:20 pm

twitter.com/Real_Trigger/status/1155540070025355264



:dread:

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Lagamorph
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Lagamorph » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:05 pm

Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:So latest rumours are that Boris may try to call a General Election over the Exit period as Parliament doesn't sit during a General Election, so we leave with No Deal and Parliament can do nothing to stop it as there is no parliament.


All dat parliamentary sovereignty :datass:

Edit:

To be more serious, Johnson would need 2/3rds of Parliament to agree to that. Labour would be torn a new asshole if they agreed to an election just so Johnson could get a No Deal Brexit.

Corbyn is so desperate for a General Election I could see him falling for it.

Then again he's backed himself into a corner. If he goes for it he gets the General Election he wants and the Brexit he's wanted for 30 years, but risks Labour taking a big chunk of the responsibility for the shitshow that follows from No Deal.
On the other hand if he doesn't back it then he faces accusations of being all talk and no substance for not taking up a General Election when it's all he's talked about since the last one.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Errkal » Sun Jul 28, 2019 9:11 pm

Lagamorph wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:So latest rumours are that Boris may try to call a General Election over the Exit period as Parliament doesn't sit during a General Election, so we leave with No Deal and Parliament can do nothing to stop it as there is no parliament.


All dat parliamentary sovereignty :datass:

Edit:

To be more serious, Johnson would need 2/3rds of Parliament to agree to that. Labour would be torn a new asshole if they agreed to an election just so Johnson could get a No Deal Brexit.

Corbyn is so desperate for a General Election I could see him falling for it.

Then again he's backed himself into a corner. If he goes for it he gets the General Election he wants and the Brexit he's wanted for 30 years, but risks Labour taking a big chunk of the responsibility for the shitshow that follows from No Deal.
On the other hand if he doesn't back it then he faces accusations of being all talk and no substance for not taking up a General Election when it's all he's talked about since the last one.


He doesn’t give a strawberry float about labours electability, if he did he would have spent 3 years strawberry floating around not picking a position on brexit!

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 8:39 am

twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1155588702128803840



It’s nice to know we can spend hundreds of millions on things we don’t need, but can’t spend anything on the things we desperately do need.

Oh well, at least our farmers and manufacturers will be happy.

twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1155600646407630849



Err umm well at least our passports will be blue.

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Benzin
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Benzin » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:34 am

Avocado rationing :lol:

If Labour agreed to a GE they'd get decimated I reckon, especially if it linked into passing over the 31st October to deliberately cause no deal..

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Qikz » Mon Jul 29, 2019 9:48 am

This whole thing is like a nightmare I can't wake up from. It's like you're in a minecart and you know ahead of you there's no more track and you're going to fall off a cliff and the person in charge of the brake to save you has no intention of doing so as he has a parachute and will get away perfectly fine leaving you to plunge to your death.

strawberry float it all.

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Photek
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Photek » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:09 am

You can't understand how utterly frustrating it is as an Irish man who lives 45minutes from Newry worried about a Border being erected all because of Idiots and now more possible because of a buffoon in charge of another country.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by OhhEnnEmm » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:15 am

Look at us all discussing what the best of a bunch of bad options would be...

Sad to see what our country has become, though it'll always be the same, they're all just out to fill their pockets, until we make it the law to stick to your promises when you run a country (How is it not already?) we always will be screwed.

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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Tineash » Mon Jul 29, 2019 10:36 am

twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1155393913575956483



She gave the exact opposite answer a week ago

twitter.com/ThomasEvansSDP/status/1155535942289170432



Both answers are awful for 'the remain party'. So why don't they pivot to a revoke article 50 & cancel brexit policy?

Why are they even planning a 2nd referendum if they believe so passionately that one outcome is the worst possible thing that can happen?

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 11:23 am

Tineash wrote:

twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1155393913575956483



She gave the exact opposite answer a week ago

twitter.com/ThomasEvansSDP/status/1155535942289170432



Both answers are awful for 'the remain party'. So why don't they pivot to a revoke article 50 & cancel brexit policy?

Why are they even planning a 2nd referendum if they believe so passionately that one outcome is the worst possible thing that can happen?


She can hardly campaign for a referendum by saying “but I won’t honour the result!”.

She also says she’ll help, but doesn’t say how. Plenty of leeway there to reject any form of hard Brexit while pushing for a Brexit where we stay in the single market with a Norway style deal.

It’s far clearer than Corbyn’s policy.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Brexit Thread 3
by Moggy » Mon Jul 29, 2019 12:06 pm

twitter.com/hendopolis/status/1155580632065544204



More good news.


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