Jenuall wrote:Top grade premium British fish though. Many a gammon will happily pay extra if they believe they are now getting a piscine dish unsullied by foreign hands!
That is actually scarily accurate to how many of them think.
Thing is the type of fish that are eaten most in the UK aren't predominantly caught in UK waters. Most of the fish caught in Norwegian waters was Cod, which is the main fish used in most Fish and Chip dishes.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
I don't agree with that (unsurprisingly). There are many ways Brexit could have been achieved other than the Tory version. The problem you have is two groups of hyper capitalists competing.
We could have had many other options which didn't involve the Tory idea of Brexit.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
I don't agree with that (unsurprisingly). There are many ways Brexit could have been achieved other than the Tory version. The problem you have is two groups of hyper capitalists competing.
We could have had many other options which didn't involve the Tory idea of Brexit.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
I don't agree with that (unsurprisingly). There are many ways Brexit could have been achieved other than the Tory version. The problem you have is two groups of hyper capitalists competing.
We could have had many other options which didn't involve the Tory idea of Brexit.
Go on....
We could have stayed in the customs union for one.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
I don't agree with that (unsurprisingly). There are many ways Brexit could have been achieved other than the Tory version. The problem you have is two groups of hyper capitalists competing.
We could have had many other options which didn't involve the Tory idea of Brexit.
Go on....
We could have stayed in the customs union for one.
Plenty of Leavers would say that wouldn't count as Brexit.
But even so, would that option have been better than what we had?
Moggy wrote:Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
This was inevitable and we knew it was coming.
People saying "this isn't the Brexit we voted for", while true, doesn't really change the fact that the Brexit they did vote was a fairytale and they shouted down everyone who pointed that out.
Moggy wrote:Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
This was inevitable and we knew it was coming.
People saying "this isn't the Brexit we voted for", while true, doesn't really change the fact that the Brexit they did vote was a fairytale and they shouted down everyone who pointed that out.
The other thing to take into consideration is that you could have polled every single leave voter on Fri 24th June 2016 about what Brexit they voted for and I'm pretty certain there wouldn't be a single option that got 50%. There was never a consideration of what Brexit deal the country wanted until the Conservatives decided what they wanted.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
I don't agree with that (unsurprisingly). There are many ways Brexit could have been achieved other than the Tory version. The problem you have is two groups of hyper capitalists competing.
We could have had many other options which didn't involve the Tory idea of Brexit.
Go on....
We could have stayed in the customs union for one.
Plenty of Leavers would say that wouldn't count as Brexit.
But even so, would that option have been better than what we had?
Agreed, a lot of leavers wouldn't have liked it but a sizable chunk may have accepted it and remainers would have too, I feel, which would have created a majority in agreement.
Would it have been better than membership is debatable. The main issue in the UK seemed to be about ever closer political union and immigration. I think the debate is settled over immigration in that we did have controls but didn't exercise it. Political union is a tough one, my main issue as I don't think the EU is politically accountable to voters. So I'd rather be out of it on a political level.
It's the same reasoning for the Lords for me. I'd scrap the Lords. Would it be better to not have the Lords oversight? Possibly not, but it's an institution that isn't democratically accountable and I can't go along with it.
There are many, many ways this could have been avoided. I doubt you will find many citizens in Europe that wouldn't agree that the EU needs absolutely massive reform in its make up. That wasn't on the table.
On the UK side, we should have had a cross party process of deciding what sort of Brexit we wanted and the final deal should have been given back to voters. We should have decided whether we wanted to go the Tory way, or a Norwegian style compromise staying in the customs union.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
I don't agree with that (unsurprisingly). There are many ways Brexit could have been achieved other than the Tory version. The problem you have is two groups of hyper capitalists competing.
We could have had many other options which didn't involve the Tory idea of Brexit.
Go on....
We could have stayed in the customs union for one.
Plenty of Leavers would say that wouldn't count as Brexit.
But even so, would that option have been better than what we had?
Agreed, a lot of leavers wouldn't have liked it but a sizable chunk may have accepted it and remainers would have too, I feel, which would have created a majority in agreement.
Would it have been better than membership is debatable. The main issue in the UK seemed to be about ever closer political union and immigration. I think the debate is settled over immigration in that we did have controls but didn't exercise it. Political union is a tough one, my main issue as I don't think the EU is politically accountable to voters. So I'd rather be out of it on a political level.
It's the same reasoning for the Lords for me. I'd scrap the Lords. Would it be better to not have the Lords oversight? Possibly not, but it's an institution that isn't democratically accountable and I can't go along with it.
There are many, many ways this could have been avoided. I doubt you will find many citizens in Europe that wouldn't agree that the EU needs absolutely massive reform in its make up. That wasn't on the table.
On the UK side, we should have had a cross party process of deciding what sort of Brexit we wanted and the final deal should have been given back to voters. We should have decided whether we wanted to go the Tory way, or a Norwegian style compromise staying in the customs union.
You said there were many other options other than the Tory Brexit. But all you've offered is the Customs Union (no evidence supplied on how that would be better than what we had), immigration (a pretty Tory policy) and ever closer political union (that we could have always opted out of).
There were no better options than remaining in the EU. We had the best possible deal going.
There were alternatives to the Brexit we actually got and some of those are better than Boris Brexit. But none of them were better than remaining.
Non-Tory Leavers are now shifting the blame. The narrative now will be "Brexit would have been great, but Boris let us down".
These clowns will NEVER admit that the whole thing was strawberry floating stupid. It'll always be somebody else's fault that it all turned to gooseberry fool.
She doesn't have a coherent argument and it seems to switch between basically changing the eating habits of the whole of the UK so we eat all the fish that we catch and the argument that once we took back our waters the EU and associated parties would have to deal with us because they need our fish to keep their economy going. Which ignores that they could just get it elsewhere and is basically the same argument as BMW will save us because they need us to buy their cars all over again.
It's perfectly valid to criticise the EU as being a capitalist, neoliberal institution, but leaving in a way that advanced anticapitalism was never on the table. Brexit was a far-right political project, with the explicit goal of removing institutional and cultural barriers to fascism in Britain. It's just not plausible to think that something functionally identical to a hate movement - same originators, same rhetoric and tactics, same end goal - could have been subverted by the left.
It's utterly predictable that a day or so before an election Johnson decides to invigorate the gammon vote with a bit of sabre rattling with the French.
It's maddening how the English ruling class hates everyone. Scotland, Northern Ireland, Ireland, France, the EU. This is not a good long term mentality.
That pile 'em high comment has completely fallen out of the news cycle as well.
Squinty wrote:It's maddening how the English ruling class hates everyone. Scotland, Northern Ireland, Ireland, France, the EU. This is not a good long term mentality.
That pile 'em high comment has completely fallen out of the news cycle as well.
In voting week no less. It should be enough to bury the conservatives in a normal world, but here we are with HES DOING HIS BEST, HE TOLD THE FRENCH WHAT HE THINKS!!!!!
It's like the start of the phantom menace.
