Brexit Thread 3 - Project Reality

[Knoyleo]

frit1
/frɪt/
noun
the mixture of silica and fluxes which is fused at high temperature to make glass.
verb
make into frit.

Colour me confused.

Tony Blair even stated that people fear a Corbyn premiership more than a no deal Brexit.

Popular chap, isn't he...

People are idiots.

Even if you think Corbyn is terrible there are ways to remove him or you only have to wait 5 years.

Whereas No Deal strawberry floats us up forever. Even if we rejoined the EU we would never get the great membership terms we currently have.

Few people tend to look beyond what's right in front of them. With that in mind Labour should have pushed Corbyn out a long time ago. People just don't like him.

Plenty of Labour members do.

[Garth]

twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1169889270196133889

Emily Thornberry confirmed on the Today programme that, if Johnson goes ahead as planned with a second vote on an early election on Monday night, after the Benn bill has royal assent, Labour will still refuse to support the move. Asked if there would be a “no” from Labour on Monday, she replied: “Yes.” She explained:

The problem that we have is that the motion that the government has put before, and it looks like will put again, is a motion under the Fixed-term Parliament Act under clauses 2 (7) and 3 of the Fixed-term Parliament Act, if we vote to have a general election, then no matter what it is that Boris Johnson promises, it is up to him to advise the Queen when the general election should be. And given that he has shown himself to be a manifest liar, and someone who has said that he will die in a ditch rather than stop no deal, and indeed his adviser, [Dominic] Cummings, has been swearing and shouting at MPs saying they are leaving on 31 [October] no matter what, our first priority has to be that we must stop no deal and we must make sure that that is going to happen.

[Hexx]

How long until Corbyn or Abbott say something different? I'll go with with 7 hours

[KK]

Challenge to UK Parliament suspension fails

The challenge to UK PM Boris Johnson's decision to suspend Parliament rejected, London's High Court says.

The case was brought by businesswoman Gina Miller, who argued the move was "an unlawful abuse of power".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49604584

[Garth]

twitter.com/PA/status/1169868499583287296

...

[That's not a growth]

I don't normal care to post in politics topics, but what the utter strawberry float

[Jenuall]

Nice of them to finally admit they've been overcharging everyone by at least 20p all this time.

[KK]

Is this a permanent price cut or just a short term promotion to indicate what the price would be in his pubs were we to leave the Customs Union? That's of course glossing over whether the CU actually has any impact on beer prices in his pubs to begin with.

[Moggy]

twitter.com/guardiannews/status/1169889270196133889

Emily Thornberry confirmed on the Today programme that, if Johnson goes ahead as planned with a second vote on an early election on Monday night, after the Benn bill has royal assent, Labour will still refuse to support the move. Asked if there would be a “no” from Labour on Monday, she replied: “Yes.” She explained:

The problem that we have is that the motion that the government has put before, and it looks like will put again, is a motion under the Fixed-term Parliament Act under clauses 2 (7) and 3 of the Fixed-term Parliament Act, if we vote to have a general election, then no matter what it is that Boris Johnson promises, it is up to him to advise the Queen when the general election should be. And given that he has shown himself to be a manifest liar, and someone who has said that he will die in a ditch rather than stop no deal, and indeed his adviser, [Dominic] Cummings, has been swearing and shouting at MPs saying they are leaving on 31 [October] no matter what, our first priority has to be that we must stop no deal and we must make sure that that is going to happen.

It’s been decades but finally Johnson’s lies, deceit and incompetence appear to be catching up with him.

[Moggy]

twitter.com/PA/status/1169868499583287296

...

twitter.com/jim_cornelius/status/1169877736459923456

[Garth]

I work for Wetherspoons and I do not agree with Tim Martin one bit, but this is just a publicity stunt.

The 20p is specifically off Ruddles in England and Deuchars in Scotland. So £1.59 instead of £1.79. Not that anyone buys that gooseberry fool beer anyway

https://www.resetera.com/threads/brexit ... t-24275038

Amazing.

[Cheeky Devlin]

twitter.com/PA/status/1169868499583287296

...

But.....

We haven't left. They've been able to do this under the current system, so how does Brexit allow us to do something we can already do..

[Moggy]

I work for Wetherspoons and I do not agree with Tim Martin one bit, but this is just a publicity stunt.

The 20p is specifically off Ruddles in England and Deuchars in Scotland. So £1.59 instead of £1.79. Not that anyone buys that gooseberry fool beer anyway

https://www.resetera.com/threads/brexit ... t-24275038

Amazing.

So to prove how much we would save on beer tariffs, which don’t even exist, he is knocking off 20p from the price of beers brewed in England and Scotland.

strawberry floating hell, I knew Tim Martin was a twat but this is beyond twattishness.

[Rocsteady]

frit1
/frɪt/
noun
the mixture of silica and fluxes which is fused at high temperature to make glass.
verb
make into frit.

Colour me confused.

Tony Blair even stated that people fear a Corbyn premiership more than a no deal Brexit.

Popular chap, isn't he...

People are idiots.

Even if you think Corbyn is terrible there are ways to remove him or you only have to wait 5 years.

Whereas No Deal strawberry floats us up forever. Even if we rejoined the EU we would never get the great membership terms we currently have.

Few people tend to look beyond what's right in front of them. With that in mind Labour should have pushed Corbyn out a long time ago. People just don't like him.

Plenty of Labour members do.

And that's the main thing, as long as those half million vote Labout we're sorted, sunlit uplands await.

[Garth]

Brexit: Opposition parties to refuse PM election move

Labour and other UK opposition parties have agreed not to back the PM’s demand for a general election before October's EU summit.

Labour, the Lib Dems, the SNP and Plaid Cymru say they will vote against or abstain in Monday's vote on whether to hold a snap poll.

The SNP's Ian Blackford said they wanted to make sure the UK did not crash out in a no-deal Brexit.

But the PM said the parties were making an "extraordinary political mistake".

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49609677

[That]

It's very important to get the Tories out and no-one understands that more than socialists. But the left think the best way to get the right out and keep them out is to offer genuine change. As life continues to get harder for ordinary people they are increasingly alienated by and angry with the neoliberal establishment. Left parties drifting to the centre is what gets us the working class "they're all the same!" anger that we've seen harnessed and weaponised by the far-right. Real change isn't popular with the media establishment (even the most "left wing" mainstream newspaper The Guardian is still very bourgeois), so it's an uphill struggle to get the policies in front of people, but it's worth trying because polls show those policies (like rail nationalisation) are actually very popular.

A centre/centre-right Labour candidate might win now. It's not really possible to tell, lots of newspapers would still smear them and in some ways it would be easier (and even more truthful) to do so ("slimy lying career politician!"). If they did win, things would be a bit better (by virtue of not having Tories) but not that much better (because centrism is always Tory-lite policy) for the next five years. That's a good outcome but not a great one and the risk is that someone far worse than even Boris would win in 2024. The sense that Labour is unable to really change the country would play into all the worst rhetoric about "the left" and cause another lurch to the far far right. This is what led to Trump in the US.

Corbyn isn't perfect, God knows I've been frustrated by him, but at least he is actually a democratic socialist. Britain would be a much more overtly social-democratic country after five years with him in charge.

[Winckle]

It's very important to get the Tories out and no-one understands that more than socialists. But the left think the best way to get the right out and keep them out is to offer genuine change. As life continues to get harder for ordinary people they are increasingly alienated by and angry with the neoliberal establishment. Left parties drifting to the centre is what gets us the working class "they're all the same!" anger that we've seen harnessed and weaponised by the far-right. Real change isn't popular with the media establishment (even the most "left wing" mainstream newspaper The Guardian is still very bourgeois), so it's an uphill struggle to get the policies in front of people, but it's worth trying because polls show those policies (like rail nationalisation) are actually very popular.

A centre/centre-right Labour candidate might win now. It's not really possible to tell, lots of newspapers would still smear them and in some ways it would be easier (and even more truthful) to do so ("slimy lying career politician!"). If they did win, things would be a bit better (by virtue of not having Tories) but not that much better (because centrism is always Tory-lite policy) for the next five years. That's a good outcome but not a great one and the risk is that someone far worse than even Boris would win in 2024. The sense that Labour is unable to really change the country would play into all the worst rhetoric about "the left" and cause another lurch to the far far right. This is what led to Trump in the US.

Corbyn isn't perfect, God knows I've been frustrated by him, but at least he is actually a democratic socialist. Britain would be a much more overtly social-democratic country after five years with him in charge.

Karl gets it. ("it" is not the wall, this time)

[Rex Kramer]

It's very important to get the Tories out and no-one understands that more than socialists. But the left think the best way to get the right out and keep them out is to offer genuine change. As life continues to get harder for ordinary people they are increasingly alienated by and angry with the neoliberal establishment. Left parties drifting to the centre is what gets us the working class "they're all the same!" anger that we've seen harnessed and weaponised by the far-right. Real change isn't popular with the media establishment (even the most "left wing" mainstream newspaper The Guardian is still very bourgeois), so it's an uphill struggle to get the policies in front of people, but it's worth trying because polls show those policies (like rail nationalisation) are actually very popular.

A centre/centre-right Labour candidate might win now. It's not really possible to tell, lots of newspapers would still smear them and in some ways it would be easier (and even more truthful) to do so ("slimy lying career politician!"). If they did win, things would be a bit better (by virtue of not having Tories) but not that much better (because centrism is always Tory-lite policy) for the next five years. That's a good outcome but not a great one and the risk is that someone far worse than even Boris would win in 2024. The sense that Labour is unable to really change the country would play into all the worst rhetoric about "the left" and cause another lurch to the far far right. This is what led to Trump in the US.

Corbyn isn't perfect, God knows I've been frustrated by him, but at least he is actually a democratic socialist. Britain would be a much more overtly social-democratic country after five years with him in charge.

I agree with this to a point but Corbyn isn't the sole repository for social democracy in the UK. Whenever I say that Labour should appeal to the centre ground to win, it's not that I think the policies wouldn't chime with those people, it's that Corbyn quite obviously doesn't. Labour need a Tony Blair, not the policies or the move to the centre right but the charisma and the ability to inspire people.

[Moggy]

It's very important to get the Tories out

While true, it became a lot less urgent to get them out once Johnson destroyed his own majority.

At the moment the Tories can't do anything. Let them sit there stewing in their own juices, force Johnson to go to the EU to ask for an extension and ensure that Johnson doesn't weasel out of it.

Then we can have an election.

And I know you know all of that Karl, my fingers got carried away while I was typing.

[Lex-Man]

It's very important to get the Tories out

While true, it became a lot less urgent to get them out once Johnson destroyed his own majority.

At the moment the Tories can't do anything. Let them sit there stewing in their own juices, force Johnson to go to the EU to ask for an extension and ensure that Johnson doesn't weasel out of it.

Then we can have an election.

And I know you know all of that Karl, my fingers got carried away while I was typing.

It worries me that Boris could sit there and refuse to go to the EU to get an extension.