Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...

Fed up talking videogames? Why?
User avatar
Cal
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostBuilding The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Cal » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:15 pm

UK.gov to spend hundreds of millions on snooping silo
By Chris Williams

Exclusive
The government is pressing ahead with plans to spend hundreds of millions of pounds on a massive central silo for all UK communications data, The Register has learned.

Home Office civil servants are working on plans for the database under the banner of the Interception Modernisation Programme (IMP). The team has recently been expanded and a director-level official appointed to run the project, which is not yet official policy in public.

Sources said secret briefings revealed the cost of the database would run to nine figures and has already been factored into government spending plans. The IMP budget was part of the intelligence agencies' undisclosed funding bid to the Comprehensive Spending Review last year. In an answer to a parliamentary question on 8 July, the Home Office refused to provide any budgetary details, citing national security concerns.

The sum will dwarf the £19m we recently reported the government has given telecoms companies to service authorities' data requirements since 2004. The überdatabase will render existing arrangements for sharing communications data with government agencies obsolete.

The project has been pushed hard at Whitehall by the intelligence agencies MI6 and GCHQ. One ISP source described their demands as "science fiction". It's envisaged that the one-stop-shop database will retain details of all calls, texts, emails, instant messenger conversations and websites accessed in the UK for up to two years.

Communications providers fear a technical nightmare if they are forced to implement common data formatting rules. GCHQ declined to comment.

A pilot scheme will see probes inserted in networks owned by one mobile, one internet and one landline operator, sources said. It's thought the database could be administered by an expanded National Technical Assistance Centre, a Home Office agency. The probes will not record content of communications, which is seen as intrinsically less useful for intelligence data mining efforts.

A Communications Data Bill mandating the database was expected to be proposed before the summer parliamentary recess, but did not appear. It had been planned that the database would be bundled with the EU Data Retention Directive (EUDRD), which must be enshrined in UK law by March 2009.

However, last week the government released a consultation paper on transposing the Directive as a standalone statutory instrument. Laws made by statutory instrument do not require a vote in Parliament.

Amid widespread headlines decrying the long-published EUDRD as another "snoopers' charter", insiders wondered what had happened to the Communications Data Bill and its central database. A Home Office spokeswoman said the bill will be published at some time this year. She told The Register that plans had changed "to make the best use of parliamentary time".

When the Bill was announced by Gordon Brown in May, apart from transposition of the EUDRD, its aim was cryptically described as to "modify the procedures for acquiring communications data and allow this data to be retained". At Whitehall, sources said advocates of the überdatabase have sucessfully lobbied that a central repository is required to "maintain capability" to monitor communications.

In his 8 July parliamentary answer, Home Office minister Lord West indicated that view has become policy when he wrote:

The objective of the interception modernisation programme is to maintain the UK's lawful intercept and communications data capabilities in the changing communications environment. It is a cross-government programme, led by the Home Office, to ensure that our capability to lawfully intercept and exploit data when fighting crime and terrorism is not lost.

The "maintain capability" lobby argued that when everyone communicated using BT landlines, government intelligence gatherers could simply contact the operator to get call records. Now we all use myriad devices and services, the only feasible solution is to pool the data centrally, they contend.

Others have countered in Communications Data Bill discussions that a central, searchable database will not "maintain capability", but grant investigators unprecedented power to cross-reference data sources (including location data from mobile phone triangulation), go on "fishing trips", and infringe privacy.

The Information Commissioner's Office voiced such opposition when early details of the IMP were reported in May. But according to our sources, public resistance to the überdatabase has so far had no significant impact on policy.

The massive investment promises a bonanza for IT contractors. Answering a parliamentary question about the project's feasibility, Lord West said: "The private sector is likely to play a major role in this work and the programme will be conducting a competitive tender and entering commercial negotiations to commission its services."


http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/08/19 ... _database/

Sample Comments on above article:

Well, you learn two things from this. Firstly that Gordon Brown is not a fit and proper leader of a European democracy, and secondly the people under him don't think he's fit to lead because they're leaking stuff to the press.

Just resign already, for the good of the party, for the good of the country, for the good of Europe, just pop out your office, say 'well the jobs more difficult than it looks, so it's best if I step down'...

Fair enough?


I mean honestly what is it with this government?

ID Cards
GPS Road Pricing
RFID Biometric Elvis Passports
CCTV in your living room
42 day detention without trial
Compulsory border rape at airports
ISP traffic filtering

All deeply unpopular, most involving at least an 8 figure price tag and now crazy ass mega data centres to store spam on - are they TRYING to be the most reviled government ever?

Do they seriously expect to continue working for us if all they are going to do is take our money and spend it on ridiculous hi-tech solutions looking for a problem?

We are at what looks like being the beginning of a recession, I'm with Steven - this is not the time to be spending huge sums of money on doomed, pointless, big brother IT projects, however, if anyone does fancy fleecing them count me in - I have the maths skills of a backward 12 year old so should be able to run rings around most home office accountants

Gordon Brown and Jacqui Smith Devil icons NOW!!


Ignoring the fact that it will crash in flames after consuming the GNP of a 3rd world country, The problem with this sort of thing is that once built it will never get shut down. So even if you really think there is a significant terrorism problem*, AND you're naive enough to believe that this sort of thing will 'fix' it, AND you don't read the news so you really believe the Brown & Co can be trusted with it and won't abuse it to snoop on the public for mindbendingly trivial 'offences'**, You're still gifting this to every future government, no matter how strawberry floated up they may be.

I'll put this as simply as I can.

Build the required apparatus for a locked down police state and that's exactly what you'll get. A week, A year, 5 years, whatever, it's totally infuckingevitable.

The only way to avoid 1984 is to stop it from being built, there are no benefits that could ever outweigh the inevitable abuse of such a system.

* significant meaning far greater danger than getting hit by lightning, choking on a chicken bone etc.

** http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/23 ... a_warning/

Skippy
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Skippy » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:17 pm

Get out more.

User avatar
abcd
Emeritus
Joined in 2008
AKA: abcd

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by abcd » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:17 pm

It's about strawberry floating time!!!!


nah, only kidding.

I am neither here or there on this one.

Image
User avatar
Steve
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Steve » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:18 pm

Why will it cost so much? They already have channels into all telecomms companies & ISP's.

I could join it all together for much less than a 9 figure some. Incompetent money wasting snooping banana splits :lol:

User avatar
Cuttooth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Cuttooth » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:18 pm

A costly and ineffective information silo? Actual genius.

User avatar
Mockmaster
Moderator
Joined in 2008
Location: Cybertron

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Mockmaster » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:19 pm

That's a little rich coming from a bluehat

User avatar
Banjo
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Nobody cares

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Banjo » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:21 pm

So, 9 figures eh? Going by the governments amazing estimation skills, better make that 10 figures.

_wheredoigonow_
JK
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by JK » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:27 pm

Could they not just stick a velodrome inside it and kill two birds with one stone?

User avatar
Mr Thropwimp
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Phantom
Location: Orb of Dreamers
Contact:

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Mr Thropwimp » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:31 pm

They'll have it all in one place and there'll still be silly cases of some tool putting the entire database on their £250 laptop so they can leave it on a train.

Businesses must love the Labour party. Normally you'd have to buy information like that: now you just need to hire a few employees and put them in the right places in case a rogue CD lands on their lap.

$ilva $hadow wrote:charles lafonda click click boom
User avatar
Cal
Member
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Cal » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:31 pm

Whilst I think predictions of an Orwellian police state might be a tad over-dramatic, there is no doubt that the setting up of such a detailed and dedicated telecommunications infrastructure - to spy on ordinary citizens - is certainly a step closer to the sort of 'benevolent dictatorship' we see in countries like Singapore and elsewhere.

You can choose to laugh and shrug this off. That's okay. I'm 45. Most of you here are a good deal younger - you and your kids will be the unlucky inheritors of this encroaching loss of privacy. Unless, of course, you decide to oppose it. Just remember, once it's set-up and running, listening in on every text, every phone call, email and internet search query, there will be no going back.

This is one genie no successive Government will ever put back into the bottle...

User avatar
Mr Thropwimp
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Phantom
Location: Orb of Dreamers
Contact:

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Mr Thropwimp » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:36 pm

I had a theory on Gordon Brown, actually. I think he knows that he's gooseberry fool at the job, and that Labour haven't a chance in hell of winning the next election, so he's decided that he'll have a bit of fun and see how much he can strawberry float things up; how much he can piss us citizens off with crazy stupid ideas. The harder he makes it for other parties to fix, the better he thinks he's done.

I blame Tony Blair for also trusting such a bumbling idiot.

$ilva $hadow wrote:charles lafonda click click boom
User avatar
JNR
Member
Joined in 2008
Location: Britain

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by JNR » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:41 pm

I'm more upset about how the roads are changing. More traffic, more speed controlling devices in all the wrong places, more advanced methods of catching you trying to get home from work, higher insurance rates (not their fault but STILL) and the most worrying thing is the government's attempt to get old cars off the road by taxing new ones the highest.

:fp:

Makes me so angry when I think about it.

Last edited by JNR on Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Cuttooth
Emeritus
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Cuttooth » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:42 pm

To be honest it's more likely the government can see how much the country and world will turn to gooseberry fool soon and want to make sure there's some order during the rioting.

User avatar
Chris
Member
Joined in 2008
AKA: Chris B

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by Chris » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:48 pm

JNR wrote:More traffic


= More petrol to tax = More govt revenue.

JNR wrote:more speed controlling devices in all the wrong places


= More govt revenue

JNR wrote:more advanced methods of catching you trying to get home from work


= More govt revenue

JNR wrote:higher insurance rates


= More revenue for someone.

JNR wrote:old cars off the road by taxing new ones the highest


= More govt revenue

A pattern emerges.

Switch Friend Code - SW-2270-8931-7619
Playstation Network - hydroburn87
User avatar
IntergalacticSpacePenguin
Member
Joined in 2008

PostRe: Building The Perfect Police State (continued)...
by IntergalacticSpacePenguin » Tue Aug 26, 2008 5:56 pm

I wonder which contractor is going to get paid to cock this one up. And how many previous jobs have they screwed up and yet were still allowed to be given more.

(puts down copy of Private Eye)

Image

Return to “Stuff”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Benzin, Google [Bot], Grumpy David, jimbojango, KK, Lex-Man, Met, more heat than light, poshrule_uk, Ste, wensleydale and 647 guests