Buying a house (and renting)

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Drumstick » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:37 am

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Harry Ellis wrote:I am not a solicitor but I would think a judge would throw their case out if it ended up in court. You have made an offer in good faith to settle they dispute which was accepted. End of.


That’s my reading of it. The “without prejudice” part means that documents can be inadmissible in court, but they can form evidence when people break the agreements or outright lie.

It’s a horrible mess though that just never seems to end.

I actually think that you could now be in a position to take them to civil court and press for compensation for the stress they have put you under (especially if you can demonstrably prove this, i.e. via doctor appointments).

Remind me, how come the outstanding amount got all the way up to £10k in the first place?

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 8:47 am

Harry Ellis wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:
Harry Ellis wrote:I am not a solicitor but I would think a judge would throw their case out if it ended up in court. You have made an offer in good faith to settle they dispute which was accepted. End of.


That’s my reading of it. The “without prejudice” part means that documents can be inadmissible in court, but they can form evidence when people break the agreements or outright lie.

It’s a horrible mess though that just never seems to end.

I actually think that you could now be in a position to take them to civil court and press for compensation for the stress they have put you under (especially if you can demonstrably prove this, i.e. via doctor appointments).

Remind me, how come the outstanding amount got all the way up to £10k in the first place?


They claimed to have carried out building works and wanted £4.5k for it. They didn’t provide any evidence of the works and didn’t follow the correct procedures for charging it.

Then they just kept adding weird amounts to the statements. £1k here, £1.5k there and I refused to pay unless they explained the charges. They settled down to normal charges after a while (which I paid) but the disputed charges stayed on the balance for years.

I saw a solicitor who agreed with me, but she said it would cost thousands if we took it to court. Potentially £10-15k. Which was a risk I didn’t want to take.

They then offered a 20% discount on the total. I told them that was ridiculous but said I’d pay 50% just to end the matter. They agreed and I paid. For the best part of two months I’ve been chasing for an updated written statement that shows the balance is £0.00.

Now they’ve written as if the 50% agreement was never made but they’ve offered 50% off the £5k they claim I still owe them.

Even if I was going to pay them (and there’s no way I will!!) how could I possibly trust that they’d stick to this new agreement? I cannot trust anything they say.

I almost certainly would win in court, but I’d like to avoid it as the costs are so damn high. But I think it’s going to end up there, there’s little else I can do.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Kezzer » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:50 am

take it to court and set up a go fend me / we will all chip in.

I have a fiver and some buttons, plus maybe a slice of pepperoni from a dominoes box I found that I was keeping for dinner.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Jenuall » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:56 am

#Justice4Moggy

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by OrangeRKN » Tue Jan 07, 2020 1:01 pm

The system is completely broken when businesses can bully individuals into paying money they aren't owed just because it'd cost even more to fight it in court.

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Corazon de Leon
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Corazon de Leon » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:01 pm

Could you possibly take it to a no-win no-fee lawyer? I know they're a bit barrel-scrapy but this might be one of those situations where they actually come in useful?

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by pjbetman » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:39 pm

Saigon Slick wrote:Could you possibly take it to a no-win no-fee lawyer? I know they're a bit barrel-scrapy but this might be one of those situations where they actually come in useful?



Great idea that. Plus you'll ensure that the management company get stung to strawberry float.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Jan 07, 2020 5:46 pm

pjbetman wrote:
Saigon Slick wrote:Could you possibly take it to a no-win no-fee lawyer? I know they're a bit barrel-scrapy but this might be one of those situations where they actually come in useful?



Great idea that. Plus you'll ensure that the management company get stung to strawberry float.


Them getting stung to strawberry float makes that a very tempting idea.

I’m going to try diplomacy and give them a little time to pretend they did this in error. But I’m not giving them long and I am not letting this gooseberry fool drag on for another few years.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:35 pm

The banana splits have written back to me. They are claiming that the £5k offer was only for the building works and didn’t cover the service charge “debt”.

strawberry floating lying banana splits, why would I agree to pay £5k as a 50% settlement when the building works dispute was only for £4.5k? :lol:

They are now demanding £5k for what they say I owe, but have offered 50% off of that as a “gesture of goodwill”.

They also claim that I introduced the concept of “without prejudice” (that’s a lie, they were first to use that!) and warn me that the letters/emails are not admissible in court.

What a bunch of utter utter banana splits.

I’m getting nowhere with trying to settle with them, I’m going to have to get a solicitor. Which is gooseberry fool, I can’t afford a strawberry floating legal battle. :cry:

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Lagamorph » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:38 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:The banana splits have written back to me. They are claiming that the £5k offer was only for the building works and didn’t cover the service charge “debt”.

strawberry floating lying banana splits, why would I agree to pay £5k as a 50% settlement when the building works dispute was only for £4.5k? :lol:

They are now demanding £5k for what they say I owe, but have offered 50% off of that as a “gesture of goodwill”.

They also claim that I introduced the concept of “without prejudice” (that’s a lie, they were first to use that!) and warn me that the letters/emails are not admissible in court.

What a bunch of utter utter banana splits.

I’m getting nowhere with trying to settle with them, I’m going to have to get a solicitor. Which is gooseberry fool, I can’t afford a strawberry floating legal battle. :cry:

One possible alternative, the limit of Small Claims court is £10k. You could potentially pay it 'under duress' and then sue for it back using the letters as evidence.

You can usually get a free initial consultation with a Solicitor so they might be able to advise you if that was a viable approach without it costing you anything.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Oblomov Boblomov » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:40 pm

God damn :| that is gooseberry fool.

Good luck with your next steps. What a massive pain in the arse.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by pjbetman » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:40 pm

Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:The banana splits have written back to me. They are claiming that the £5k offer was only for the building works and didn’t cover the service charge “debt”.

strawberry floating lying banana splits, why would I agree to pay £5k as a 50% settlement when the building works dispute was only for £4.5k? :lol:

They are now demanding £5k for what they say I owe, but have offered 50% off of that as a “gesture of goodwill”.

They also claim that I introduced the concept of “without prejudice” (that’s a lie, they were first to use that!) and warn me that the letters/emails are not admissible in court.

What a bunch of utter utter banana splits.

I’m getting nowhere with trying to settle with them, I’m going to have to get a solicitor. Which is gooseberry fool, I can’t afford a strawberry floating legal battle. :cry:


Surely your without prejudice offer letter states 50% on it? And also the amount originally owed and/or the final, reduced amount? If not, what the strawberry float was your solicitor doing?

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:47 pm

pjbetman wrote:
Partridge Iciclebubbles wrote:The banana splits have written back to me. They are claiming that the £5k offer was only for the building works and didn’t cover the service charge “debt”.

strawberry floating lying banana splits, why would I agree to pay £5k as a 50% settlement when the building works dispute was only for £4.5k? :lol:

They are now demanding £5k for what they say I owe, but have offered 50% off of that as a “gesture of goodwill”.

They also claim that I introduced the concept of “without prejudice” (that’s a lie, they were first to use that!) and warn me that the letters/emails are not admissible in court.

What a bunch of utter utter banana splits.

I’m getting nowhere with trying to settle with them, I’m going to have to get a solicitor. Which is gooseberry fool, I can’t afford a strawberry floating legal battle. :cry:


Surely you're without prejudice offer letter states 50% on it? And also the amount originally owed and/or the final, reduced amount? If not, what the strawberry float was your solicitor doing?


Yes my letter stated 50% and specified the exact amount as a full and final settlement.

There was no solicitor involved, I wrote it myself.

Interestingly their letter back in October (where they offered 20% off) states the full £10.5k amount. So they are talking utter bollocks that the offers were only on part of the amount.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by 7256930752 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:21 pm

If I were you I'd pay to see a really good legal professional just to find out what your options are and the potential cost. I'd strawberry floating love you to do these strawberry floats over and get a payout for your efforts but I get out through the ringer. It's really gooseberry fool but £2.5k might be the easiest option to get away from there rather than spend more and drag it out for months.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Fri Jan 10, 2020 9:32 pm

Hime wrote:If I were you I'd pay to see a really good legal professional just to find out what your options are and the potential cost. I'd strawberry floating love you to do these strawberry floats over and get a payout for your efforts but I get out through the ringer. It's really gooseberry fool but £2.5k might be the easiest option to get away from there rather than spend more and drag it out for months.


Trouble is that I’ve seen how these banana splits operate. I paid £5k to get away and they then ignored the agreement came right back with a further demand. If I pay another £2.5k, I fully expect they’ll bullshit their way into making another demand.

I’ll make an appointment with a solicitor and see what they say.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Ste » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:28 pm

Moggy

I work in claims. Liability/personal injury so not exactly the same but I know about without prejudice correspondence and how the courts tend to deal with disputes.

This is the first time I've stumbled across this thread, I've not read it all and have had a bottle of wine but my advice would be if you think you've got a good case/argument then don't pay anymore and just ignore them.

For them to get what they claim is owed to them they'd have to go to a small claims court. As someone else has pointed out, as the amount involved is less than £10k no one would get any legal costs awarded to them so that will be a big part in their thinking. The courts/judge will always favour the individual against the big company. So like I said, if you think you've got a good case no company will want to take an individual to court knowing the judge will favour the individual and they won't get any legal costs involved in the process.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Sat Jan 11, 2020 8:24 am

Ste wrote:Moggy

I work in claims. Liability/personal injury so not exactly the same but I know about without prejudice correspondence and how the courts tend to deal with disputes.

This is the first time I've stumbled across this thread, I've not read it all and have had a bottle of wine but my advice would be if you think you've got a good case/argument then don't pay anymore and just ignore them.

For them to get what they claim is owed to them they'd have to go to a small claims court. As someone else has pointed out, as the amount involved is less than £10k no one would get any legal costs awarded to them so that will be a big part in their thinking. The courts/judge will always favour the individual against the big company. So like I said, if you think you've got a good case no company will want to take an individual to court knowing the judge will favour the individual and they won't get any legal costs involved in the process.


Thanks for the reply. You’re almost certainly right that the property management company will not ever take me to court. They know they would lose.

But the problem is that the charges they add are going to stop me being able to sell the place. Nobody is going to want to buy a flat that has charges outstanding (whether those charges are valid or not) and even if there was some way of not passing the “debt” on, it will put off potential buyers if they think the PMC are lying banana splits.

If I wanted to stay here then I’d continue to ignore the pricks, but I’d like to move at some point and so need to get this sorted.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:34 am

I have an appointment with my solicitor on Thursday. Hopefully they will be able to advise me where I stand and what I can do.

On an unrelated note, does anybody want to buy a flat in Bristol? :shifty:

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Jenuall » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:00 am

Good luck with it, hopefully you can get a decent solution to the problem. I would be strawberry floating livid with those property management people

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:09 am

I am not convinced anything can be solved outside of going to court, but the hope is that the solicitor can at least tell me if I am right or wrong and can suggest how we can move things forward.

I really want to avoid an expensive court case though, so hopefully just a threatening letter from my solicitor will be enough. I imagine the property management company know that leaseholders don't want to go to court and so rely on badgering people until they give in.

The whole leasehold sector is a strawberry floating mess. I would never consider buying another leasehold, it's just not worth it.

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