Buying a house (and renting)

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Moggy
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:04 pm

That's not a growth wrote:I thought you got advice from somewhere which pointed you in the direction of your current gameplan?


Yes but that was just the way to go about it. It didn't really go into the pricks getting a barrister and then trying to screw me into paying their legal fees.

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Drumstick » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:07 pm

That's not a growth wrote:I thought you got advice from somewhere which pointed you in the direction of your current gameplan?

GRcade.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Karl_ » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:09 pm

I don't have any advice Moggy, I don't really know very much about law, but I hope you smash them in court mate. It sounds like they are just trying to bully you. Fingers crossed for you.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by That's not a growth » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:32 pm

Drumstick wrote:
That's not a growth wrote:I thought you got advice from somewhere which pointed you in the direction of your current gameplan?

GRcade.


Oh. Oh no. Moggy no.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by jawa2 » Sat Dec 12, 2020 6:33 pm

As ever, I hope that you are able to kick their backsides at the endgame, Moggy. They sound like a bunch of con merchants.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Sun Dec 13, 2020 1:08 pm

Only reply I received on Reddit says they can't really advise.

In other news, I saw a story that Bristol City Council are buying up some privately owned properties in the city so they can meet their affordable housing commitments. They are also doing a LOT of redevelopment in this area. I doubt it'll go anywhere, but I just dropped them an email asking if they are interested in my flat. :lol:

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Drumstick » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:17 am

:lol:

Since moving into our current house at the start of August we have spent significant investment in giving it a modern look and repairing everything that was either bodged or just flatout broken by the previous owner. This includes:

A general face lift throughout the entire house (still ongoing but almost done)
Replacing random bits of skirting board that were missing or damaged
Replacing random bits of the picture rail that were missing
Sanding doors down so they fit the damn doorframes
New front door
Extra cupboards
Replacing broken window runners (which were preventing some windows from closing)
New tiled flooring in the main bathroom
Removing two large bushes and one tree from the garden, digging out the roots
Insulating the loft
Boarding the loft
Installing a side gate so that people cannot just walk straight into our rear garden from off the street
Planting new bushes at the front of the house
Repairing half a broken fence at the front of the house
Cutting back some of our neighbour's absurdly overgrown bushes

I really cannot wait to be done with this.

One man should not have this much power in this game. Luckily I'm not an ordinary man.
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andretmzt
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by andretmzt » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:19 am

That sounds like a lot of work, especially removing the tree. :dread: I bet it looks a whole lot better for all the work though.

Speaking of trees, I got a Hawthorn through the post this morning. Apparently my partner won it in a competition. I don't want to waste it, yet at the same time don't want it in the garden (too stout, want something more slender). I think I'll just plant it in the space on the other side of my fence.

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Victor Mildew » Tue Dec 15, 2020 9:22 am

Drumstick wrote::lol:

Since moving into our current house at the start of August we have spent significant investment in giving it a modern look and repairing everything that was either bodged or just flatout broken by the previous owner. This includes:

A general face lift throughout the entire house (still ongoing but almost done)
Replacing random bits of skirting board that were missing or damaged
Replacing random bits of the picture rail that were missing
Sanding doors down so they fit the damn doorframes
New front door
Extra cupboards
Replacing broken window runners (which were preventing some windows from closing)
New tiled flooring in the main bathroom
Removing two large bushes and one tree from the garden, digging out the roots
Insulating the loft
Boarding the loft
Installing a side gate so that people cannot just walk straight into our rear garden from off the street
Planting new bushes at the front of the house
Repairing half a broken fence at the front of the house
Cutting back some of our neighbour's absurdly overgrown bushes

I really cannot wait to be done with this.


No feature wall, tv above the fireplace and L shaped sofa??? What the strawberry float have you even been doing?!

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by pjbetman » Tue Dec 15, 2020 11:45 am

Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:As far as I'm aware they can't claim legal costs in small claims court unless they can prove that you have behaved unreasonably.

https://www.hughes-paddison.co.uk/site/ ... of%20money.

https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal ... costs.html


It's not the small claims court. The First Tier Tribunal is set up to deal with leasehold issues.

On the form I completed, I had to tick a box to say that the landlord would be responsible for any legal costs they incur. This is them saying they will fight that and try and charge me for any costs. I have no idea if they would win that.


From my reasonable experience of these situations, costs may be applied if the court/tribunal feels that you have been partly responsible for it getting this far. But it appears that the landlord has been wholly responsible for mishandling the situation. I think it all started when they slapped a £6k (?) charge on your property without supplying the invoices and quotes or even a description of the work, then expecting you to simply pay up, and abusing their position. They can hardly claim legal expenses when theyve completely ignored the legislation. Focus on that.

EDIT: Also, in a MCOL claim each party would submit their evidence and a covering letter explaining their side. Im assuming the FTT would be similar? I wouldnt worry until youve seen their evidence package. Which you know will be full of holes. This letter is just a scare tactic, as they almost always are. Also, the FTT will have legal experts tarined to deal with these specific situations - so why would the defence need their own ones? The question answers itself.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:04 pm

pjbetman wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Lagamorph wrote:As far as I'm aware they can't claim legal costs in small claims court unless they can prove that you have behaved unreasonably.

https://www.hughes-paddison.co.uk/site/ ... of%20money.

https://www.compactlaw.co.uk/free-legal ... costs.html


It's not the small claims court. The First Tier Tribunal is set up to deal with leasehold issues.

On the form I completed, I had to tick a box to say that the landlord would be responsible for any legal costs they incur. This is them saying they will fight that and try and charge me for any costs. I have no idea if they would win that.


From my reasonable experience of these situations, costs may be applied if the court/tribunal feels that you have been partly responsible for it getting this far. But it appears that the landlord has been wholly responsible for mishandling the situation. I think it all started when they slapped a £6k (?) charge on your property without supplying the invoices and quotes or even a description of the work, then expecting you to simply pay up, and abusing their position. They can hardly claim legal expenses when theyve completely ignored the legislation. Focus on that.


Cheers, yeah that's basically the situation. They wanted £4K for building work but didn't follow legislation. There was £2k or so in unexplained "excess service charges" that they never explained. Another £4k or so of stuff that just got added on with no explanation.

We then came to a full and final settlement agreement for 50% of the total, roughly £5k. They then claimed (after I paid!) the settlement was only for the building work (how is £5k 50% of £4k? :lol: ), which was never previously mentioned, said I still owed £5k and slapped an extra £1k on for interest.

I think my focus will be on them breaking the settlement agreement, I'm not sure how relevant the earlier stuff is?

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:10 pm

The first tier tribunal emailed me yesterday to confirm the caseworker, offer a mediation service and forwarded some documents. I said I don't think mediation is going to help, we are a long way past that point.

They replied:

As you have said you are not wanting to accept the Tribunal’s offer of mediation I will now make arrangements for a Case Management Hearing to take place which will be via telephone and I will send out the details to both parties once I have a Judge to conduct the hearing.


shitjustgotreal.gif

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Drumstick » Tue Dec 15, 2020 12:50 pm

I trust in your submission to the tribunal you documented the explained and unexplained costs.

I would agree that focusing on where they have broken law (settlement) and legislation (building work) is what you need to focus on, but you should definitely go in hard on the toll this has taken on you and Mrs. Moggy's mental health, especially in an age where it's finally being taken seriously.

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Victor Mildew
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Victor Mildew » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:11 pm

What a gooseberry fool situation to be in, hope it pans out for you moggy.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:11 pm

Drumstick wrote:I trust in your submission to the tribunal you documented the explained and unexplained costs.

I would agree that focusing on where they have broken law (settlement) and legislation (building work) is what you need to focus on, but you should definitely go in hard on the toll this has taken on you and Mrs. Moggy's mental health, especially in an age where it's finally being taken seriously.


So far I have only had to submit a basic overview. They will ask for all the documents etc later, I assume after the phone call.

I'll be focusing on the original dispute, while making clear that the main point now is the broken settlement agreement. I'm not sure how seriously mental health will be taken for this sort of hearing, but stress is going to be mentioned a few times!

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Jenuall » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:27 pm

I think you just need to make sure you have a very clear account with evidence to back it up of everything from start to finish.

If there's a very clear timeline of events which shows each time they asked for something incorrectly, or made up charges without justification then you should be in a strong position and can make it clear at each step how you have acted in good faith to resolve the situation where the other party have been failing to do that.

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Pancake » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:33 pm

It rather trivial compared to Moggy's situation but our buyer pulled out today and it's really annoying. :(

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Drumstick
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Drumstick » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:34 pm

Yeah it's in your interest to create a very linear timeline which clearly demonstrates where they are at fault.

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Moggy
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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by Moggy » Tue Dec 15, 2020 1:38 pm

Drumstick wrote:Yeah it's in your interest to create a very linear timeline which clearly demonstrates where they are at fault.


Jenuall wrote:I think you just need to make sure you have a very clear account with evidence to back it up of everything from start to finish.

If there's a very clear timeline of events which shows each time they asked for something incorrectly, or made up charges without justification then you should be in a strong position and can make it clear at each step how you have acted in good faith to resolve the situation where the other party have been failing to do that.


Yes I will be doing that. The tribunal will want all documents in one pdf which was annoying as I had them split into years. I've now got one (MASSIVE!!!) PDF, so will put together a document detailing everything with reference to individual page numbers.

And don't worry Pancake, this isn't my thread! Everyone is free to moan. :lol:

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PostRe: Buying a house (and renting)
by pjbetman » Tue Dec 15, 2020 6:33 pm

Moggy wrote:
Drumstick wrote:Yeah it's in your interest to create a very linear timeline which clearly demonstrates where they are at fault.


Jenuall wrote:I think you just need to make sure you have a very clear account with evidence to back it up of everything from start to finish.

If there's a very clear timeline of events which shows each time they asked for something incorrectly, or made up charges without justification then you should be in a strong position and can make it clear at each step how you have acted in good faith to resolve the situation where the other party have been failing to do that.


Yes I will be doing that. The tribunal will want all documents in one pdf which was annoying as I had them split into years. I've now got one (MASSIVE!!!) PDF, so will put together a document detailing everything with reference to individual page numbers.

And don't worry Pancake, this isn't my thread! Everyone is free to moan. :lol:



I fully agree with what the other posters about making your case clear. You will need to explain to them on the phone, and it needs to be clear - no waffling, no uncertainty, no contradictions and everything you say will need evidence because they will ask you for it. All fairly obvious stuff.

When i had a mediation session a few years ago (sued a car dealer), they phoned me, asked my side of the case. Then, phoned the defendant and asked them for their version of events. Then they phoned me back and basically the defendant had told them a pack of lies. They asked me if id accept a lower offer than what my total sum was - i got £450 out of £550 i think in the end. But the mediator, i found, was trying to make my legal position look weak so that id enter into a legally binding offer over the phone, just so it didnt go to court (saving them money). I had zero chance of losing my case, but i gave in under a bit of pressure from them to accept a lower figure. But this is part of the game - showing that you are being reasonable and accepting a compromise of some sort to avoid court action.


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