Buying a house (and renting)

Victor Mildew wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Drumstick wrote:What the total cost? Something like £12k isn't it?

Original amount paid was £5k, and the additional £5k + "interest" was paid under protest, so £11.5k? Then plus damages for the stress and anxiety this situation has caused...

Yeah it's roughly £11k.

£5k full and final settlement
£6k to get them off my back and start legal action.

There's no way I'm accepting £1600 (interest plus the £500).

If they offered £4k then I'd be tempted to just end this gooseberry fool. It's £2k less than I'd likely get from the Tribunal but would be a guaranteed amount and would avoid the risk (however small!!) of losing.

Isnt part of your case arguing that the 6k fee was extortionate anyway? That's a HUGE service charge (x3?). Even a new roof would cost less than 5k

Lotus wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The cooker in the house we're buying is basically brand new. Will we still have claim on the warranty if it breaks despite it being (by some measure) second hand?

When I bought my place the previous owners gave me a folder full of manuals and warranty details of all the installed appliances and such. Can you ask for something similar?

Yeah I don't know if they are transferable though or if the manufacturer would turn around and say it didn't apply.

Basically the seller is asking for money towards the cooker as it had to be replaced recently and whether it is covered by a warranty or not will affect how much we value it

OrangeRKN wrote:

Lotus wrote:

OrangeRKN wrote:The cooker in the house we're buying is basically brand new. Will we still have claim on the warranty if it breaks despite it being (by some measure) second hand?

When I bought my place the previous owners gave me a folder full of manuals and warranty details of all the installed appliances and such. Can you ask for something similar?

Yeah I don't know if they are transferable though or if the manufacturer would turn around and say it didn't apply.

Basically the seller is asking for money towards the cooker as it had to be replaced recently and whether it is covered by a warranty or not will affect how much we value it

I'm uncertain on the warranty thing, my hunch would be that it isn't transferable but it feels like a good question for someone with a bit more knowledge on the subject - have you tried asking your solicitor?

Either way asking for more money for it seems a bit cheeky, surely they should have included any value the cooker added to the valuation of the house in general? Or did it get changed after you agreed a price?

Jenuall wrote:Either way asking for more money for it seems a bit cheeky, surely they should have included any value the cooker added to the valuation of the house in general? Or did it get changed after you agreed a price?

It's unclear, our offer was accepted on the 23rd September (three and a half months ago ) and it was apparently replaced "late September". It's a free-standing cooker not built-in but we did think it was included in our offer. We also had the fridge/freezer be included as a condition of our offer and that's actually what the seller wants the money for - to cover buying a new fridge/freezer in their new house. The house they are buying has a cooker included, as you would expect, so there isn't much to do other than give or sell it to us, but then I can empathise with wanting some contribution towards it if it is such a recent replacement.

From reading around online about it a bit more, it sounds like there's no obligation from the manufacturer/warranty provider to honour the agreement, and many take it as a chance to cancel or void the warranty. In some cases it sounds like it's a case-by-case basis, with some viewing the warranty as something that just covers the product, while others view it as a contract between the customer and them.

Unless they can guarantee that the warranty can be transferred to you I'd be reluctant to pay anything extra, because there's no way of knowing if the company would honour it.

How much more are they asking for out of interest? I guess at some point it comes down to how much you want to pay and also how much either party are willing to make something like this a possible point over which the whole thing falls through.

pjbetman wrote:

Moggy wrote:

Drumstick wrote:What the total cost? Something like £12k isn't it?

Original amount paid was £5k, and the additional £5k + "interest" was paid under protest, so £11.5k? Then plus damages for the stress and anxiety this situation has caused...

Yeah it's roughly £11k.

£5k full and final settlement
£6k to get them off my back and start legal action.

There's no way I'm accepting £1600 (interest plus the £500).

If they offered £4k then I'd be tempted to just end this gooseberry fool. It's £2k less than I'd likely get from the Tribunal but would be a guaranteed amount and would avoid the risk (however small!!) of losing.

Isnt part of your case arguing that the 6k fee was extortionate anyway? That's a HUGE service charge (x3?). Even a new roof would cost less than 5k

My main case will be they agreed to a settlement and then didn't honour it when I paid the agreed amount.

But yeah, it's bloody ridiculous how much they added on. Unexplained (and large!) service charges, the balance going up with no explanation and then large interest charges once I paid the settlement.

I just want it over with, which is why I'd probably accept £4k if they had offered it. They can get strawberry floated with a £1.6k offer.

Lotus wrote:From reading around online about it a bit more, it sounds like there's no obligation from the manufacturer/warranty provider to honour the agreement, and many take it as a chance to cancel or void the warranty. In some cases it sounds like it's a case-by-case basis, with some viewing the warranty as something that just covers the product, while others view it as a contract between the customer and them.

Unless they can guarantee that the warranty can be transferred to you I'd be reluctant to pay anything extra, because there's no way of knowing if the company would honour it.

Thanks, this seems to be the conclusion - it's basically a whim of the manufacturer (as that's what warranties really are, the actual legal protection from sale of goods wouldn't apply).

Jenuall wrote:How much more are they asking for out of interest? I guess at some point it comes down to how much you want to pay and also how much either party are willing to make something like this a possible point over which the whole thing falls through.

£200, it was apparently £390 new. It's definitely not something to make a huge deal of in the context of buying a house, I certainly don't want there to be any bad blood over a cooker! I want everyone to come out thinking all is fair but it's hard to know exactly what fair is

OrangeRKN wrote:

Lotus wrote:From reading around online about it a bit more, it sounds like there's no obligation from the manufacturer/warranty provider to honour the agreement, and many take it as a chance to cancel or void the warranty. In some cases it sounds like it's a case-by-case basis, with some viewing the warranty as something that just covers the product, while others view it as a contract between the customer and them.

Unless they can guarantee that the warranty can be transferred to you I'd be reluctant to pay anything extra, because there's no way of knowing if the company would honour it.

Thanks, this seems to be the conclusion - it's basically a whim of the manufacturer (as that's what warranties really are, the actual legal protection from sale of goods wouldn't apply).

Jenuall wrote:How much more are they asking for out of interest? I guess at some point it comes down to how much you want to pay and also how much either party are willing to make something like this a possible point over which the whole thing falls through.

£200, it was apparently £390 new. It's definitely not something to make a huge deal of in the context of buying a house, I certainly don't want there to be any bad blood over a cooker! I want everyone to come out thinking all is fair but it's hard to know exactly what fair is

I would say if they can give you all the receipts, instructions, warranty agreements etc for all the white goods/cooker, you'll give them the £200.

That way if anything ever does break you can at least have a go at getting someone to fix it for free/at least have the model numbers proof of purchase etc.

I am so glad I bought my place from my mum and avoided this crap, I would have assumed it didn't come with the house because it isn't built in. My logic would be "built in" its part of the house, "standalone" its movable so is taken.
I figure there would also be a difinitive list of "ins" and "outs" to avoid this sort of thing.

Fair is: if you want to keep the cooker you bought; take it. If you don't; leave it.

That's it. No transfer of money should be required.

Drumstick wrote:Fair is: if you want to keep the cooker you bought; take it. If you don't; leave it.

That's it. No transfer of money should be required.

This.

When (if!!) I ever get to move, I'm leaving all sorts of stuff here rather than trying to get it out of the flat and transporting it. I remember getting the fridge freezer in here, was a nightmare getting it up the stairs, that strawberry floating thing is staying.

It's typical when buying a house that the person who's leaving it would rather leave some things behind, so you'd normally negotiate a token amount of money for them to do so. I think we gave the woman who owned our about £150 to leave the (pretty decent back then) fridge freezer and washing machine. We then left our stuff in the flat and the woman who bought that off us gave us a bit of money too.

Fitted stuff like an oven is part of the house.

Yeah one of the standard forms you have to fill out is all about what's being left and what isn't and there is always the option to negotiate on price for certain things that the seller might want to leave for the new buyers. The fact it is a freestanding oven and not one that is built in is what makes it fair game for negotiation.

Jenuall wrote:Yeah one of the standard forms you have to fill out is all about what's being left and what isn't and there is always the option to negotiate on price for certain things that the seller might want to leave for the new buyers. The fact it is a freestanding oven and not one that is built in is what makes it fair game for negotiation.

I dunno, to me an oven feels like something that would just be 'part' of a house - no matter it's form-factor. I wouldn't expect to negotiate over a bath, just because it's freestanding.

EDIT: to add to this, I consider 'white goods', like fridges, freezers, dishwashers, fair game.

Errkal wrote:I figure there would also be a difinitive list of "ins" and "outs" to avoid this sort of thing.

There is, that's what this has come up from. It's standard for the seller to be able to offer anything not included with the house for sale separately. We've only just received the property information form and the list of fixtures/fittings because the seller was waiting for the chain to close before proceeding.

The initial verbal offer we made had conditions for certain things to be included (carpets, curtain rails, fridge/freezer and cooker) but none of that is a legal agreement and the cooker then broke and had to be replaced (it seems) after our offer was made.

We could be cutthroat about it knowing the cooker is not needed by the seller but I can empathise with their position and risking any resentment over it seems silly for what it is, given we want the house to be left in a good state etc.

If we hadn't asked for the fridge/freezer to be included I don't think we would have been asked for anything towards the cooker because that's what they want the money to replace, but we specifically asked for the fridge/freezer because it's a big american style one that the kitchen is built around and replacing it with a cheaper standard fridge and freezer as we would be inclined to do as first time buyers scraping our deposit would look rubbish!

Anyway to answer the original warranty question I had - any warranty is at the discretion of the manufacturer. Some warranties say they can be transferred but it should be considered unlikely and they may still find reason to refuse cover regardless.

For me it's take it or leave it, I am not entering into petty negotiations. Nothing personal. Moving house can be stressful enough as it is.

Just received our mortgage approval today, subject to valuation, after starting the process in November

Unfortunately the valuation cannot happen for another 2-3 weeks, but we're hopeful that things could move swiftly after that as we are only in a chain of two - us (renting) and the sellers (who are buying a new-build). If things go smoothly I suspect we could be in a position to exchange by mid-Feb and complete by the end of Feb. Great for avoiding stamp duty before the end of March.

However, we're currently on a statutory periodic tenancy and our lease states that we need to give two months' notice. To minimise risk of things falling through we ideally wouldn't give our notice until exchange, but of course this would either mean a significant delay to the move or that we pay rent and mortgage simultaneously if we move earlier (which would be a lot on top of the mortgage as we rent in London).

Does anyone have any experience of a similar situation where you've been able to negotiate a shorter notice period? If so, what approach did you take? I imagine the rental market is not so hot right now for finding new tenants so their motivation to reduce the term would likely be minimal at best. We'd be dealing with an agency as the landlord/owner is a foreign investor with no active role. We've lived here for almost 5 years and have been no burden on the agency or landlord at all.

ignition wrote:Does anyone have any experience of a similar situation where you've been able to negotiate a shorter notice period? If so, what approach did you take? I imagine the rental market is not so hot right now for finding new tenants so their motivation to reduce the term would likely be minimal at best. We'd be dealing with an agency as the landlord/owner is a foreign investor with no active role. We've lived here for almost 5 years and have been no burden on the agency or landlord at all.

From November:

Drumstick wrote:Also, and I realise this is no good to you now, but it might be to someone: when we were almost ready to start looking, we contacted our letting agent to pass on a request to the landlord. It basically said: for your information we are looking to buy a place in the next 12 months. As we have been good, trouble-free tenants for several years, please can we amend the break-clause from three months to one. In return we will keep you as updated as best we can and promise to be as accommodating as possible with viewings to future prospective tenants.

Landlord was happy to agree and wished us the best of luck.