Ched Evans - should he play football again?

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Imrahil
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Imrahil » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:05 pm

No problem with him playing professional football again if he's offered the work.

Just like I have no problem with any convicted criminal, assuming they are deemed safe to the public, being given the ability to make a fresh start in their profession.

I can't see any way I could justify an opinion that he shouldn't play again. There's no logic in it as far as I can see, assuming you generally believe in ex-cons being given another chance once they're on the outside.

Any attempt to move the goal posts (aha) and arbitrarily declare football as being a caveat to your re-employment principles is rather hypocritical and silly I would have thought.

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Grumpy David
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Grumpy David » Fri Oct 17, 2014 9:31 pm

[iup=3592394]HSH28[/iup] wrote:Not that I know an awful lot about this, but doesn't the fact that he still claims he is innocent of the charge effect any argument where you make rehabilitation a factor on if he should be allowed to play again?

Surely he can't be rehabilitated if he doesn't think he was ever guilty...on the other hand if it was a miscarriage of justice and at some point he gets the charge overturned, where does that factor in?


I don't know an awful lot about this either but those are good points.

I had a look on the website Evans girlfriend set up for him, there's a video of the girl walking into the hotel and she doesn't look unable to consent if her walking drunk ability is any indication. Also her deleted tweets about "winning big" makes me question whether she wanted justice or money.

It'd be very interesting if it's a miscarriage of justice. Would have been interesting being on the jury as I'd say the video alone would leave me with a reasonable doubt as to guilt.

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jamcc
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by jamcc » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:23 am

If the club don't want him to, they have every right not to email employ him. Equally; vice versa. It's not up to the public to say.

He's served his time. Let the justice system do its thing. There is no place for martial law in society.

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Preezy » Sat Oct 18, 2014 12:45 am

[iup=3592086]Cal[/iup] wrote:I think most people believe in the concept of rehabilitation for those convicted of crimes and who have served their time as a result. The problem is that some crimes are regarded by large numbers of people as incompatible with any notion of rehabilitation - most often crimes of sexual offence. This is a problem. If Evans is permitted to return to professional football how about letting Max Clifford return to PR work when he gets out of prison?

Tricky. Then again, we either mean it when we talk about rehabilitation or we don't.

Think I agree with Cal on this one. He's served his time and should be allowed to return to the trade that best fits his abilities. Better that than he goes on the dole for the rest of his life and falls into a cycle of crime.

Good talking point though, brought up a decent amount of debate around the table on my lunch break at work.

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Dual
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Dual » Sat Oct 18, 2014 9:37 am

Yes but first he must be raped by the opposition team in front of a packed stadium.

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by 7256930752 » Sat Oct 18, 2014 10:22 am

Grumpy David wrote:
[iup=3592394]HSH28[/iup] wrote:Not that I know an awful lot about this, but doesn't the fact that he still claims he is innocent of the charge effect any argument where you make rehabilitation a factor on if he should be allowed to play again?

Surely he can't be rehabilitated if he doesn't think he was ever guilty...on the other hand if it was a miscarriage of justice and at some point he gets the charge overturned, where does that factor in?


I don't know an awful lot about this either but those are good points.

I had a look on the website Evans girlfriend set up for him, there's a video of the girl walking into the hotel and she doesn't look unable to consent if her walking drunk ability is any indication. Also her deleted tweets about "winning big" makes me question whether she wanted justice or money.

It'd be very interesting if it's a miscarriage of justice. Would have been interesting being on the jury as I'd say the video alone would leave me with a reasonable doubt as to guilt.

I too had a look at the website and others as I had no prior knowledge of this case. Definitely seems like it could have gone either way in court.

The term 'rapist' evokes an image of sordid men waiting in dark alley ways to attack vulnerable women; in this case I think we have a good looking young guy who is used to a lot of female attention who perhaps misread the situation.

As for him being able to work again, obviously he should be able too but no club can expected to take on the baggage. Will be interesting to see what happens if it does get overturned as by that time he might be too old to be a professional footballer.

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Mommy Christmas » Sat Oct 18, 2014 8:12 pm

What if he was a welder? Would people be saying "I don't think he should be allowed to weld again"? No, It's all about the money.


His job pays big bucks. He's paid his debt, let him move on.

:dread:
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jamcc
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by jamcc » Sun Oct 19, 2014 10:43 am

Mommy wrote:What if he was a welder? Would people be saying "I don't think he should be allowed to weld again"? No, It's all about the money.


His job pays big bucks. He's paid his debt, let him move on.


Agree. The argument is basically 'a rapist shouldn't have a better job than me'.

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Shadow
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Shadow » Sun Oct 19, 2014 11:14 am

I don't think there should be any official block on him playing professionally, but I don't think any club should hire him either.

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TheWay
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by TheWay » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:09 am

[iup=3593126]Mommy[/iup] wrote:He's paid his debt, let him move on.


No. He's served the mandatory minimum imprisonment. If you think this constitutes the sum total of his "debt" (and what a wonderful way to collateralize evil by the way, well done) then you're grossly mistaken. He gets to have a shitty life now. That's his punishment. It didn't end when he toddled out of the prison gates. That was just the grim eclosion.

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That
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by That » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:36 am

Should punishment be the primary aim of a criminal justice system?

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That
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by That » Mon Oct 20, 2014 12:37 am

I don't think Ched Evans should play football again, by the way; I'm just curious as to your thoughts.

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TheWay
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by TheWay » Mon Oct 20, 2014 1:22 am

[iup=3593899]Karl[/iup] wrote:Should punishment be the primary aim of a criminal justice system?


I seriously doubt the British legal system has enough over-arching co-ordination that it has any primary aim. It's loosely directed by a political entity, so I'd expect it's goals to be frugality and image.

No. Scratch that. Let's be less glib.

I think the primary aim should be neither punishment nor rehabilitation. A judicial system should be geared heavily for prevention. But that would require a loss of significant freedoms. Many of which we wouldn't notice missing, but would still be foolish to surrender. This would be my idealistic, conflicted liberal view. Which results in the status quo. A system that can only endorse rehabilitation, but does not achieve it Or even make the strident effort needed to do so.

Of course, I could be coldly pragmatic instead. Cull everyone with a cumulative prison time of five years or more. Chilling, brutal, effective. Not as a prevention of first offence, but as one of recurrence. Lower prison costs(no strawberry floating appeals, no death row). A sense of closure for victims. Some innocent people will die. Many will be saved as repeat offenders are removed. Exodus 21:23-25. How utilitarian are you willing to go? Maybe being a monster is price worth paying, for the greater good. And that's where I usually catch myself, because there's no phrase more sinister than "For the greater good".

Some days I'd stick with the former. Some days the latter scenario holds great appeal. But it falls down at your first question, Karl. Because I'd sneer at anyone who thinks that the British legal system has Justice at its core. It's a societal tool like any other. It's there to stop us destroying each other. Beyond that, it doesn't give a gooseberry fool.

All for another thread though. One I won't participate in. Serious discussions aren't really my thing. And as you can see, I descend into rambling.

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by chalkitdown » Mon Oct 20, 2014 2:23 am

You need help.

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Fatal Exception
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Fatal Exception » Mon Oct 20, 2014 8:36 am

Sounds like he wants a friendly dictatorship. Maybe he should move to China.

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Poser » Mon Oct 20, 2014 9:15 am

[iup=3592534]Grumpy David[/iup] wrote:I had a look on the website Evans girlfriend set up for him, there's a video of the girl walking into the hotel and she doesn't look unable to consent if her walking drunk ability is any indication. Also her deleted tweets about "winning big" makes me question whether she wanted justice or money.



I'd not seen that site. The review into his conviction is gathering pace, too, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out and, if he is exonerated, I'll happily eat my previous words.

However, this picture did make me laugh. 'Nobody who climbs a hill with a stick could possibly rape someone...'

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by <]:^D » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:40 am

[iup=3593894]TheWay[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3593126]Mommy[/iup] wrote:He's paid his debt, let him move on.


No. He's served the mandatory minimum imprisonment. If you think this constitutes the sum total of his "debt" (and what a wonderful way to collateralize evil by the way, well done) then you're grossly mistaken. He gets to have a shitty life now. That's his punishment. It didn't end when he toddled out of the prison gates. That was just the grim eclosion.


That is a great word!

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Moggy
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Moggy » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:50 am

[iup=3594033]<]:^D[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3593894]TheWay[/iup] wrote:
[iup=3593126]Mommy[/iup] wrote:He's paid his debt, let him move on.


No. He's served the mandatory minimum imprisonment. If you think this constitutes the sum total of his "debt" (and what a wonderful way to collateralize evil by the way, well done) then you're grossly mistaken. He gets to have a shitty life now. That's his punishment. It didn't end when he toddled out of the prison gates. That was just the grim eclosion.


That is a great word!


Eclosion: The emergence of an insect from the pupa case, or of a larva from the egg


It does fit really well in this case. :lol:

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Fatal Exception
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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Fatal Exception » Mon Oct 20, 2014 10:53 am

Maybe he meant it as a metaphor?

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PostRe: Ched Evans, rapist - should he play football again?
by Moggy » Mon Oct 20, 2014 11:47 am

[iup=3594046]Fatal Exception[/iup] wrote:Maybe he meant it as a metaphor?


I assumed he did, I wasn't taking the piss (for once!).


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