Children and Religion

Unicorns do exist: http://mingle2.com/dating/unicorn

Lucien wrote:

MCN wrote:I firmly believe religious indoctrination is wrong.

Out of interest what would you do if given the chance? Teach them Athiesm or Agnostic belief or other?

1. Keep biased religious teachings out of school, it's a matter for the parents to teach if anything.
2. At the same time don't teach kids about sex til they're 12, there's no point before.
3. Teach evolution (say it's a theory if you have to) in all state schools

Falsey wrote:You know what bro, I dont need thicker skin.

I think its pretty unfair that such a major moment in my life is being belittled and ridiculed.

If it made you happy, good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that a man splashed water on you and said some words.

If you see that as ridicule, what does that say? That's exactly what happened. So should we not say anything in order to respect your views? Or should be phrase it differently?

Because, as I see it, saying "a man splashed water on you and said some words" is pretty much the only way to describe it at a base level.

It's the same as saying "A man was nailed to a cross". I can't say "The son of God was nailed to a cross and died for our sins", as I can't believe that. Just as I can't say that the water being splashed and the words being uttered welcomed you into heaven.

Igor wrote:That's all well and good, but when you're 6 year old kid comes up to you and asks where everything came from, are you really going to say 'well son, there are two schools of thought; one says that God made everything. Christians, Jews and Muslims believe this. The other says that the universe resulted from a giant explosion, and over billions of years the Earth and everything on it got to the point it's at now through a process known as evolution.

Feel free to believe which ever one you want.'

No, you wouldn't do that to a 6 year old child. [Okay, edit time. You being MCN, you'll probably say that you would, just to be argumentative. Whatever.

I'm not MCN, but I would literally say something along those lines to my child...

I wouldn't say 'there are two schools of thought' but I would tell him what the scientifically accepted theory of the time stated and then afterward I would explain about religion.

Are you telling me when your six year old child comes up and asks you you're going to simply say God did it?

NickSCFC wrote:3. Teach evolution (say it's a theory if you have to) in all state schools

I think the most important thing you can do in that case is explain what a theory means in a scientific sense.

Balloon Sod wrote:

Falsey wrote:You know what bro, I dont need thicker skin.

I think its pretty unfair that such a major moment in my life is being belittled and ridiculed.

If it made you happy, good for you. But it doesn't change the fact that a man splashed water on you and said some words.

If you see that as ridicule, what does that say? That's exactly what happened. So should we not say anything in order to respect your views? Or should be phrase it differently?

Because, as I see it, saying "a man splashed water on you and said some words" is pretty much the only way to describe it at a base level.

It's the same as saying "A man was nailed to a cross". I can't say "The son of God was nailed to a cross and died for our sins", as I can't believe that. Just as I can't say that the water being splashed and the words being uttered welcomed you into heaven.

And as such, Id have no issue over that. But being told that I had magic water splashed on me, and then a pervert cast a spell on me is somewhat belittling, No?

If I have kids I'll raise them to be good people generally and I won't need religion to do that. If my children were to ask me about religions I'd tell them the honest answer that I don't personally belong to any religion but they are free to if they wish. The only problem I have with the connection between religion and children is the branding of a child as a 'Christian child' or a 'Muslim child'. Until they are old enough to understand exactly what they are supposed to follow they are 'children of Christian upbringing'.

On basic terms, scientific theory is quite similar to the theory about god:

We think it happened but we can't be positively sure.

MCN wrote:

Jonathan86 wrote:I believe it's a good thing to introduce religion into a kids life. Not really for the 'worship your maker' thing, but for the moral values it teaches.

It is perfectly possible to teach morality without religion. If I have kids, I will allow them to believe what they want, and to make their own decisions about religion based on evidence.

Morality is natural, I believe it's the key to our survival as a species and half the reason we've come so far? Does it need to be taught?

MCN wrote:There are very few actual facts in science.

But we can at least agree there are one helluva lot more facts in science than in religion?

MCN wrote:There are a load of theories (but beware of the terminology here, as it means a very different thing in a scientific context) that are constantly revised as more evidence for and against comes to light.

The newest of which is the theory of Man-Made Climate Change. In the absence of any provable facts, it's all about having faith, people.

MCN wrote:To that end, there is a hell of a lot of evidence against the biblical version of events, and pretty much nothing for it. Until more evidence comes to light, then the accepted scientific theory (NOT hypothesis, which is what people often think theory means) is that God does not exist, and certainly not in any form described in religious texts.

Fair enough. But if turns out there IS a great big fairy up in the sky - I'm in!

Falsey wrote:So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

Are you playing Devil's* advocate here?

If your child asks you whether unicorns exist you'll tell them that you don't think they do?



*sorry if I offended you by using the word Devil.

MCN wrote:

NickSCFC wrote:3. Teach evolution (say it's a theory if you have to) in all state schools

I think the most important thing you can do in that case is explain what a theory means in a scientific sense.

Atleast all schools are now forced to teach it as an option, the same way all religions should be taught equally in all schools.

Red Devil wrote:On basic terms, scientific theory is quite similar to the theory about god:

We think it happened but we can't be positively sure.

Well no. We have evidence to support scientific theory such as evolution. We have no evidence to support the existence of God. Not that I'm saying God doesn't exist, I'm just saying that we have no evidence.

NickSCFC wrote:

MCN wrote:

Jonathan86 wrote:I believe it's a good thing to introduce religion into a kids life. Not really for the 'worship your maker' thing, but for the moral values it teaches.

It is perfectly possible to teach morality without religion. If I have kids, I will allow them to believe what they want, and to make their own decisions about religion based on evidence.

Morality is natural, I believe it's the key to our survival as a species and half the reason we've come so far? Does it need to be taught?

A problem with allowing people to assume what is moral and immoral is that morality is subjective.

Stealing is wrong. Stealing to feed your family is wrong, or right, or above morality?

NickSCFC wrote:

MCN wrote:

Jonathan86 wrote:I believe it's a good thing to introduce religion into a kids life. Not really for the 'worship your maker' thing, but for the moral values it teaches.

It is perfectly possible to teach morality without religion. If I have kids, I will allow them to believe what they want, and to make their own decisions about religion based on evidence.

Morality is natural, I believe it's the key to our survival as a species and half the reason we've come so far? Does it need to be taught?

I do think it needs to be taught, and it is the teaching of morality throughout the generations that has enabled it to be so pervasive, and in turn has helped us get this far. For example, a toddler with a toy generally will not share that toy with another toddler until they have been taught to share.

Phatman wrote:

Red Devil wrote:On basic terms, scientific theory is quite similar to the theory about god:

We think it happened but we can't be positively sure.

Well no. We have evidence to support scientific theory such as evolution. We have no evidence to support the existence of God. Not that I'm saying God doesn't exist, I'm just saying that we have no evidence.

Isn't the Bible evidence of god? Jesus doing all the gooseberry fool he did?

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

MCN wrote:The way I see it,if I were to force my children down the atheism route, then I would be as bad as those who force their children into religion. For me, it is all about the freedom of choice.

I disagree. If my kid asks me do unicorns exist I'm going to say no, same with god. You're not forcing kids to be atheist, just stating the facts.

But its not a fact, There is nothing, anywhere, that proves this.

Is there any proof unicorns exist? As there isn't I think it's safe to assume they don't.

So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

If there's no evidence, there's no reason to entertain the idea.

There's as much evidence for both as there is an 8th day of the week, a 25th hour in the day and a 13th month in the year. Let's stop beating around the bush.

This kind of wishy-washy nonsense is thanks to the promotion of a bastardisation of 'respect'. As if all ideas are equally worthy.

Kid: "Was Newton a grasshopper that dressed like a Soho Dandy?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

Kid: "Did Einstein go to special school?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

Oblomov Boblomov wrote:

Falsey wrote:So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

Are you playing Devil's* advocate here?

If your child asks you whether unicorns exist you'll tell them that you don't think they do?



*sorry if I offended you by using the word Devil.

Honestly, Id say 'I dont know', Because guess what, I dont.

I think its important I say here that Im not a fanatic, or creationist, or godsquad.

Red Devil wrote:

Phatman wrote:

Red Devil wrote:On basic terms, scientific theory is quite similar to the theory about god:

We think it happened but we can't be positively sure.

Well no. We have evidence to support scientific theory such as evolution. We have no evidence to support the existence of God. Not that I'm saying God doesn't exist, I'm just saying that we have no evidence.

Isn't the Bible evidence of god? Jesus doing all the gooseberry fool he did?

The bible has to be discounted because none of it is first-hand information, and it is merely a collection of stories that pleased a group of church leaders when it was compiled. There were many other gospels and storied that were completely left out.

Balloon Sod wrote:

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

Falsey wrote:

Memento Mori wrote:

MCN wrote:The way I see it,if I were to force my children down the atheism route, then I would be as bad as those who force their children into religion. For me, it is all about the freedom of choice.

I disagree. If my kid asks me do unicorns exist I'm going to say no, same with god. You're not forcing kids to be atheist, just stating the facts.

But its not a fact, There is nothing, anywhere, that proves this.

Is there any proof unicorns exist? As there isn't I think it's safe to assume they don't.

So you can say to the child 'I dont think Unicorns exist' and 'I dont think god exists'

If there's no evidence, there's no reason to entertain the idea.

There's as much evidence for both as there is an 8th day of the week, a 25th hour in the day and a 13th month in the year. Let's stop beating around the bush.

This kind of wishy-washy nonsense is thanks to the promotion of a bastardisation of 'respect'. As if all ideas are equally worthy.

Kid: "Was Newton a grasshopper that dressed like a Soho Dandy?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

Kid: "Did Einstein go to special school?"

Dad: "I don't think so"

That is an utterly ridiculous comment. You know how much of what is now known as scientific fact was once rubbished due to lack of evidence?

Hope and optimism are powerful things, yo.